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24th Mar 2017, 9:30 PM #1
Epiale

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ReroOnyx:From what I can tell, they don't want students to use it because a stereotype has been built around it. A relatively unsurprising stereotype as is.

Once again there's a difference in saying that a specific manga style doesn't match up to realism and that the entire genre doesn't match up. It just seems that art teachers have come to generalize anime/manga into a whole group and not break it down as in many cases it is intended to be.


You really aren't reading anything anyone is saying. Look, even the most realistic of anime styles are still stylized. You are still inherently hindering yourself by focusing on it.

Art teachers discourage it in the classroom because their literal job is to teach you the literal real world basics that allow you to create good art, and possibly later expand into stylization once you have the basics down. It's not some personal attack on anime, shit, teachers will give you hell for focusing on western cartoon styles too, they're literally just making the completely valid point that you have to learn realism, and that "learning a style" is inherently going to hinder you.

This isn't hard to understand. Why are you so determined to paint this stereotype of teachers just being evil and hating anime? Are you sure you aren't just getting angry because you personally don't want to study from life, and are upset people are pointing out it's a required step in the process to create art that doesn't look bad?
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24th Mar 2017, 8:28 PM #2
Epiale

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The problem with the argument that you can learn from anime is that you're taking in something already far removed from reality and using that as a baseline. You have no base knowledge of what a real arm looks like, just a hyper-stylized one, and so any attempts on your part to draw one are going to just be further removed from reality, now without the base knowledge to make that style not look horrific.

That's why 99% of art made by people who focus on anime looks like absolute shit. That's why the proportions are off, faces look fucked, and the art looks like your typical heavily-mocked "bad anime art". Sure Kishimoto understands anatomy, but you, the random person reading Naruto, don't, and so any attempt to imitate that style will just lead to compounding on existing mistakes, because you inherently lack the base to know what's stylization and what's accurate.

Also nobody here has said that all anime ever has the same style, just that that's what's commonly seen. I mean, ReroOnyx, even your art follows that trend of stylization, it's not like what we're talking about is some weird biased misconception.
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Result in thread: "youre not a REAL fan"
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23rd Mar 2017, 8:56 PM #3
Epiale

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You do realize like 99% of people who play the actual games don't know or care about EVs and IVs either right?

It really seems like trying to justify giving a group you personally have some beef with crap for liking a thing you don't like. If someone doesn't click on a conversation level just don't talk to them, don't try to tear them down or accuse them of not being real fans.
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Result in thread: "youre not a REAL fan"
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23rd Mar 2017, 8:07 PM #4
Epiale

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Honestly I just see the lack of knowledge as a good conversation point. Who doesn't like talking about stuff they like?

I know I get excited when I run into a fan of something I like who I can still show things to. It's incredibly fun to be the person who shows them a special episode, or a game they might like, or some weird trivia they might not have known. It's not like you're at a job or something where someones ignorance could be an actual hindrance, it's stuff you engage in for fun, and having more people to engage with is a net benefit unless you let yourself get angry over stupid minor things.
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Result in thread: "youre not a REAL fan"
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23rd Mar 2017, 7:24 PM #5
Epiale

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I think it's pretty normal for people to not specify exactly what they mean when talking about super wide-spread series like that. As an example "I love Pokemon!" could refer to the anime, the manga, the games, or even just finding the damn little death machines cute, and still be a completely valid statement. Judging someone negatively for not playing the exact version of the game you prefer is still weird, and pointlessly antagonistic. Sure it's fine to clarify if you're having a conversation with someone about mechanics, but it's weird to find someones enjoyment of a thing annoying.
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Result in thread: "youre not a REAL fan"
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23rd Mar 2017, 7:04 PM #6
Epiale

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halibabica:I've only ever felt this way about one thing: Pokemon GO. As a person who has played the core series games since Gen 1 and who takes the meta side of it relatively seriously, the initial widespread reception of GO made me just a bit jaded. It's like, suddenly Pokemon becomes accessible to everyone because it's a phone app now, and suddenly everyone's a Pokemon fan? Haha, sorry, no.

Not that I fault people for playing it, I certainly see the novelty. I just couldn't take any of it seriously and I'm relieved the fad isn't lasting.


What difference does it make though that people enjoy playing this one specific Pokemon game? It's still a Pokemon game, a fan of Pokemon GO would technically be a fan of Pokemon, and it's not like people are required to pass a knowledge test on a game of all things to be allowed to like it. It's not like you have to play every version of Pokemon ever to be a fan.

I didn't understand the hype either, but it made a ton of people happy, and actually got several people into the other Pokemon games, what's wrong with that? Why the need for elitism over what is literally a series of games made for children to play for fun in their spare time?
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23rd Mar 2017, 3:40 PM #7
Epiale

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While I agree that obviously not all anime is the same, in this context we all know exactly what it's referring to, and there isn't really a more accurate term for the specific style beyond maybe "How to draw Manga" style. It's arguing semantics where it's just distracting to the main topic and everyone knows damn well what the word means in this context, just like I don't have to clarify every single time I use a word with multiple known meanings. Context tells you what it means.

ANYWAYS, I agree with the general consensus that you have to learn how things work in the real world before you can stylize. I'm gonna go further and say that that doesn't suddenly stop somewhere, like, you don't reach a certain level of proficiency and get your "Free to Draw Nothing but Anime Without Criticism" badge. Nobody is a perfect artist, and if you want to create something good, and continue to improve you have to keep looking at references, learning new things, refining your understanding of lighting, the human body, etc.

And while drawing in a stylized way for fun is fine, it can absolutely hinder you if you focus on it too much or too early, and I'm going to go so far as to make the argument that you are actively hindering yourself if you try for a certain style at any point outside of random one-off pieces. I'm STILL trying to force myself to fix drawing mistakes I've been making since I was in fucking middle school and only referenced anime. My early focus on that style, even though I was also in an actual art class working on figure drawing and realism, ingrained some really terrible habits in me I'm still struggling to break, and I see that a ton in people like me who started off with that super early influence. I fucked up the way I actually see things so that heads don't look right to me unless they're too big. I can't draw non-huge eyes without it looking off to me.

You aren't just learning how to make your hand do the thing, you're training how you see things, how you conceptualize what a thing should look like so you can translate that to paper, and that is way easier to mess up, and way harder to fix. I'm having to train myself out of how I originally trained myself to see shit, and that's an honest nightmare to do.
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Result in thread: "youre not a REAL fan"
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21st Mar 2017, 9:00 PM #8
Epiale

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Oh God band elitism. It's painful how many times I was asked in college to name off stats about Radiohead like it was the most obscure thing ever, and it was inconceivable I'd actually have heard anything other than Creep.

Even if that is all you've heard who cares, it's music lol.

also had someone recently get on my case about typing TWENTY ØNE PILØTS without the stupid slash through the O. the horror
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21st Mar 2017, 8:53 PM #9
Epiale

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The easiest thing to do would be to just shrink the pages down in whatever art program you use before uploading. Most people draw huge and then edit the image file itself to be about 800-900 pixels wide when saving it in the final format, and then uploading that smaller version.
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Result in thread: "youre not a REAL fan"
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21st Mar 2017, 6:38 PM #10
Epiale

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keltyzoid!:i guess that's true in a sense, but i'm mostly frustrated when people claim to be fans of something, but are really fans of something else. if you say you're a comic book fan, but you don't read comic books and you just watch the movies, that's my biggest problem and what i meant in the other thread where i said "fake fans." a good example of this might be Mortemer, who is obsessed with being this big omg geek gamur gurl and wears loads of game and pop culture merch for things she admits she's never actually played/watched.


I can understand the annoyance, fair enough, but I guess I still don't see it as a reason to give someone a hard time. Like I said, that's more about being an obnoxious person in general than anything.

Wolfslayer:Wow.... I didn't think people are that sucky. I mean seriously I want to know how these people think, what goes through their mind. I see why many people might be driven away from something they like because of these jerks. But I think they prefer the things they like being niche just to feel special. Elitism the most thing to have.


People are weird. I think I saw a lot more than most people because I was somewhere smack in the middle of "in-shape girl who wears low-cut shirts a lot" and "obvious super nerd". It attracted some strange folk lol.

And yeah, I think a lot of it comes from people basing their identity around their love of this thing, so knowing liking the thing isn't all that special makes them feel less special too. It's an unhealthy mentality to have.
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Result in thread: "youre not a REAL fan"
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21st Mar 2017, 6:21 PM #11
Epiale

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I get that a lot, got it way more in college when I would get hyper into fandoms, wore merch, and was surrounded by dumb assholes who think "lol gurl cant into comic". It's so insanely obnoxious it's unreal. It's also baffling when it's over insanely popular pop-culture, like, I think 99% of America and a lot of the rest of the world have seen Star Wars.

And I'm gonna be honest even if a person is only a fan of "watered down" versions of something, like the recent string of hero movies, that doesn't somehow make them not a fan. They're a fan of the Thor in the movies. They're a fan of the GotG movies. They aren't suddenly lesser or whatever because they haven't read the comics, especially when you consider that most superhero comics are INSANELY difficult to get into, with huge backlogs, that are often difficult to find or make sense of. If you'd seriously look down on someone for not liking something exactly the way you want them to you've got issues, and may want to reevaluate why someone elses minor enjoyment of a thing bothers you so much. If they're obnoxious about it they're an obnoxious person, not a "fake fan". (and for the love of God, it's okay to prefer a newer version of something over the original, it's just not a big deal)

And straight up you're a piece of shit if you'd give someone a hard time over being a "real fan". You're also a pos if you think someone could never be into something based solely on their appearance. You reach new heights of idiot when you accuse a girl of not knowing anything and then think explaining basic shit to her like she's a moron is somehow going to impress her like half the dipshits I interacted with in college did. :/
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Result in thread: Webcomic Art Progression
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21st Mar 2017, 5:56 AM #12
Epiale

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We're gonna start REAL early with this because it's way funnier/more impressive in the improvement department that way. I mean it's cringey, but I'm capable of laughing at myself, and I did improve, so it's all good. Spoilered to help prevent a bit of thread image loading hell:

[spoiler]

Image: http://68.media.tumblr.com/d64b07ff1c3e5d7eda88abf5827ca933/tumblr_on5hmkKDZi1tdl2zgo1_540.png


Started off just being anime trash. I was in middle school/early high school, and while the first drawing was absolutely a random half-assed sketch I did as a joke when requested to "draw a human unicorn", the comic itself was probably my first real serious attempt to make a webcomic. I got about ten pages in before giving up on that version of it.

Image: http://68.media.tumblr.com/ea378ddb7c3d75e014e78d092f93a439/tumblr_on5hmkKDZi1tdl2zgo2_540.png


I actually don't have any art from actual comic pages for the next attempt I had at the comic. I went through a really weird edgelord phase that I'm pretty sure was spurned on by mental health issues. The comic got really dark, the art got weird, and at some point I trashed the entire thing. (something I still honestly regret doing even if the art and story weren't great) But, give Uni rainbow-dash hair, and it's pretty accurate to what the art looked like in the actual pages.

Image: http://68.media.tumblr.com/a33adc01546e7807d90ce25772dc8509/tumblr_on5hmkKDZi1tdl2zgo3_540.png


Aaaaand we get to actual current comic stuff. This comic was actually my first time ever even trying to cell shade, and I clearly had some consistency and anatomy problems earlier on that I'd like to think have gotten better. Honestly drawing the most recent version has forced me to get better just through sheer time spent drawing, and feedback (a sincere thank you to people who've critiqued my stuff, it's legitimately helpful to have a fresh set of eyes to notice flaws), and I'm incredibly happy for it. Sure my art didn't start out perfect, still isn't perfect now, but I did start a comic, I'm still working on it, and that's better than never making anything for fear of not being good enough. :)
[/spoiler]
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21st Mar 2017, 3:06 AM #13
Epiale

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All assignment PMs from either me or Mystic-Snail should be in! If you didn't get one or think there might be an error (maybe I messed up a link) please let me know.

Have fun everyone. :)
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Result in thread: Style Change Help
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21st Mar 2017, 12:45 AM #14
Epiale

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Line variation can be finicky when you first start messing with it, most things in art kind of are, but it's not an insurmountable evil. You can already see how it improved the eyes of your characters, it's just a matter of taking it slow, and trying new things to find what works. :)
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Result in thread: Style Change Help
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21st Mar 2017, 12:37 AM #15
Epiale

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The second one is absolutely an improvement, mostly in the face and hair. I'll also add that line variation isn't a negative, it's just a matter of figuring out where to use it the most effectively. :)

To steal a quick example from a pretty great tutorial by Andrew Hussie, line variation can really change something from looking flat and dull to looking a lot more lively:

Image: http://www.smokinghippo.com/TSOtutes/inktut02.jpg
Image: http://www.smokinghippo.com/TSOtutes/inktut04.jpg


All in all, yeah, second style is much better.
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20th Mar 2017, 5:57 PM #16
Epiale

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I'll read through every now and then to remind myself of what the pacing looks like, or to find a specific color swatch I need (I color pick directly off pages like a Godless heathen), but don't tend to re-read through it often or anything. My old pages, while absolutely bad in a lot of ways don't tend to make me cringe so much as remind me that I am improving. Do I regret certain decisions made earlier on? Yeah. Do I find the art earlier on hard to look at? Yup. Is that first font literally making my eyes melt out of my skull? Absolutely.

But all in all the fact this stuff stands out so much is just proof I'm getting better, and the comic is getting better as a result. (I'd hope, at least the art looks nicer)

Plus it's just kinda neat to look at the pages and go "Wow I made all that" even if every page isn't exactly a stellar artistic achievement.
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20th Mar 2017, 3:31 PM #17
Epiale

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Whoops, fell asleep last night, my bad.

Signups are now CLOSED. We'll be sending out assignments by the end of the night. :)
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19th Mar 2017, 5:22 PM #18
Epiale

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Hey guys! A reminder that signups close at midnight tonight! Please get your refs/links in, and sign up now if you want in. :)
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17th Mar 2017, 9:37 PM #19
Epiale

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Super cute unicorn, and congrats Van Husk. :) Your daughter is absolutely precious. <3
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Result in thread: Webcomic Rated
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17th Mar 2017, 5:01 AM #20
Epiale

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Was originally gonna land somewhere in the PG-13 range, but recent changes to the plot (for the better I'd say) have absolutely pushed it into an R rating eventually. I think I stopped caring if something was going to bother other people, it's a hobby comic I'm doing for my own entertainment, might as well go full hog and make it exactly what I want it to be lol.
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