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Forum > Webcomic & Art discussion > Verging The End then Cont. / Readership Notation
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"Verging The End then Cont. / Readership Notation", 12th Sep 2017, 11:12 PM #1
systemcat

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The note which people say in this forum is in time your comic will gain readers. This is a false statement and I took a screenshot once which proves the fact. So in that false statement how much should this bother me? Of my two series, Iron and Steel is approaching it's end on DA much faster than it is here. Here however at 184 pages, it only has one reader. DA, well one reader however a different one. Would anyone else feel miffed if that were how many readers their comic had? I deeply appreciate those two reading the series but you'd think nearing 200 pages here and plus 230 over there by now ... :-(

.. Even after it ends at least for current story, comic stories for the same universe are coming. Should I dare even hope then?
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12th Sep 2017, 11:25 PM #2
Steven-Vincent

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Maybe you could try putting the actual link to your comic (instead of to your Deviant Art page, which yes, contains the comic but is not a direct link to it) in your sig? Perhaps more people here would read it. It seems kind of odd that you are posting here, but in your sig here at CF, you have a DA link. If you wanted people to read it on CF, you should put a CF link either in addition or instead.

Other than that I dunno. Liberty Lass has almost 100 subs. How many of these are regular readers though I can't say -- not 100 for sure. Maybe 20 or 30. Not sure what the other 70+ people are up to but reading regularly does not seem to be their thing. So I did gain readers over time but I also plateaued -- I hit 90+ subs probably a year ago and have not gained 10 since. My guess is, everyone who uses CF and would like to read LL has already found it, and so new people finding it will be a rare thing. Though I dunno.

I suppose you're right that there is no guarantee you'll get readers. But there is a guarantee that if you don't post it, you won't get them. Does that make it worth posting? Only you can decide that.
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12th Sep 2017, 11:36 PM #3
MK_Wizard

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As someone who tried different sites before finding this one, it's a challenge within itself to find your audience. When it comes to DeviantArt, it is more about general art than webcomics. With that said, it is so big that it gets lost. When people are looking for a webcomic, very rarely do they go to DeviantArt. While many webcomic writers have a DA account, their main focus is their webcomic site. So keep your DA account open, but have a link to your webcomic especially because it is easier to read there.

Don't call it quits. You did good in experimenting. You just need to keep taking a dip in different pools before you find the one that's just right.
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12th Sep 2017, 11:38 PM #4
systemcat

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To Steven-Vincent:

( You're correct on where it goes. )
I know I could link in my sig, but I've noticed just no one in this place cares for the comic so what is the point of that? At least if someone follows the DA link in the sig. they see more than the comic.

I'm used a low readership but keep trekking forward. I'm not going to stop posting over the majority's lack of interest.

To: MK_Wizard

I've been with DA much longer than here. DA is nearly my catch all account on my art.

Second, at this point I just don't know what to do on finding my audience. People don't care what I do. I've found the only people who do are ones who have read all the connecting content and that is super rare, hence why there are only two readers.
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12th Sep 2017, 11:54 PM #5
Chippewa Ghost
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Some pointed questions on the topic of "why bother":

--> Is your art improving from first page to last?
--> Is your writing improving?
--> Are you making something you enjoy?

I mean, shit, interacting with the readers is super awesome, but when I read my back archives I crack up at the jokes.
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13th Sep 2017, 12:03 AM #6
systemcat

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To Chippewa Ghost:

. I'd say the art has been pretty steady. Even when I switched from Corel Painter Essentials to Manga Studio, that change was unnoticed except maybe for a page but that isn't easy to spot.
. The writing has worked to it's highest point following guideline written back in '15. Not an easy task considering how complex it is.
. I enjoy it. I just wish that enjoyment was more shared.
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13th Sep 2017, 12:16 AM #7
Steven-Vincent

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systemcat:I know I could link in my sig, but I've noticed just no one in this place cares for the comic so what is the point of that?


How do you know that? If you don't link to the comic directly, you aren't giving people here a chance.

Here's what I think of when I see a link in a sig to "My DeviantART account" -- an online portfolio. A portfolio, not a comic-book.

If I'm looking for a webcomic to read, why would I click that link? What indication would I have that this link is going to bring me to a webcomic and not just your online portfolio? There is no such indication, and I would probably NOT click that link. (Unless I'm looking for someone's portfolio, which I can't remember the last time I was, if ever.)

In fact when I read your OP, what I did first was, I went into your profile and from there, found the CF version of your comic. Then I came back here thinking, "Why wasn't that link in the sig? What's in the sig anyway?" and I clicked on it, and saw, yes, the comic, but a bunch of other stuff -- i.e., your online portfolio. And that is nice and all but if I am looking for a webcomic I'm probably not going to click that. I mean think about it. What reason would I have for browsing some random stranger's online art portfolio? Unless I was looking to hire an artist, I'd not really have such a reason.

But I'm always on the hunt for new good comics to read, so if I knew you had a comic I might, perhaps, just click on a link to it.

If you want people to read your comic on DA rather than here, fine, but at least tell us: "read my comic Iron & Steel at DeviantART!" or something. Let people know you are making comics. There's nothing that I would have seen in your sig or your forum name or your forum icon that would have told me you were even making a comic. For all I knew you were just an artist who likes to come here to read comics and shoot the shit with other CF members. If you want me to know about your comic you have to TELL ME.

Otherwise from where I sit it looks like you're just promoting an art portfolio and as I said, I don't make a habit of perusing those. I have no good reason to.
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13th Sep 2017, 12:42 AM #8
systemcat

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Why you see so much of it on my DA is because almost all my artistic time is spent on my comics.

Second, what is so bad about linking back to my DA account from here? I think when people click on it's avatar from most current updates - version of the home page, they do that at passing curiosity. That slight glance doesn't result in a new reader or comment. I don't count subs. So if a passing glance is it, a banner wouldn't likely do much better.

You have a point in the existence of a sig. link but from what I can gather how comics gain readers here ... hmm, this would be a tad fruitless. Don't ask for clarification. I think people would not like that.
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13th Sep 2017, 1:17 AM #9
Nyomi
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systemcat:
Second, what is so bad about linking back to my DA account from here? I think when people click on it's avatar from most current updates - version of the home page, they do that at passing curiosity. That slight glance doesn't result in a new reader or comment. I don't count subs. So if a passing glance is it, a banner wouldn't likely do much better.


Haha, what? Do you know how many comics I've clicked on because of a banner? It's a lot. I will absolutely click on a comic if the banner captures my interest.

Anyway, your argument sounds more or less like, "My party never wins, so I'm not going to vote."

And uh, I think most people casually glancing at your signature in the forum don't even know that you have a comic, so that's why posting in the forums a lot isn't boosting your views. I certainly didn't realize you had like, five until I clicked on your profile.

It sucks your comic isn't more popular, but I see you talking about how unpopular it is a lot without taking any steps to fix it. Part of popularity is luck, yes, but that's not the only factor. Ask for critiques. Do art trades. Participate in the community. Do that sort of stuff.

And bottom line is that your popularity shouldn't matter that much anyway. Don't get me wrong, we all know the feeling of "OH GOSH NEW SUB!!!!" and it's absolutely cool to think that people are reading your comic, but you should also be cool with making it even if it means no one will read it. It's for you and no one else.

Sorry, I think I'm repeating some people. My point is that they are correct.

(also I HATE reading comics on deviantart so i wouldn't click on your comic via your deviantart anyway but that's sort of irrelevant to this conversation.)
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13th Sep 2017, 1:34 AM #10
systemcat

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This topic really isn't over how to gain new readers. It really is over asking those simple questions I said at the start of this. Would you feel miffed if that were your readership? Plus should one hope even after the big story is over?
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13th Sep 2017, 1:37 AM #11
Nyomi
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ah, well, my point still stands that at the end of the day, you should be doing the comic for you and any attention you get is a bonus.

so i'd be a little disappointed, but if it was something i was truly passionate about i'd just keep going anyway.

until i burn myself out, anyway.

and as for the big story thing... goes back to the passion thing. if you're passionate about the story, do it! if not, well... don't, haha.
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13th Sep 2017, 2:55 AM #12
Steven-Vincent

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systemcat:Second, what is so bad about linking back to my DA account from here?


I just told you why.

A deviantART link appears, to the reader, to be a link to an artist's portfolio NOT a link to a webcomic. For a reader looking for a webcomic, they won't click on that link. It's not what they're looking for.

You mentioned that length of time did not lead to readers like people had told you. I'm telling you why, in part, that is the case. Because (as Nyomi also just said), what makes us find comics is clicking on an interesting banner. It's literally how I found EVERY ONE of the 20 or so that I subscribe to on here. An interesting sig banner.

systemcat: I think when people click on it's avatar from most current updates - version of the home page, they do that at passing curiosity. That slight glance doesn't result in a new reader or comment. I don't count subs. So if a passing glance is it, a banner wouldn't likely do much better.


Clicking on things out of curiosity is how we find them.

Heck picking something up out of curiosity and looking it over in the comic shop is how I found Lazarus, Velvet and Criminal -- 3 of my favorite print comics of recent years. And thanks to Velvet and Criminal I found more of Brubaker's work: the Fade Out, for instance, and his long and satisfying run on Captain America. And thanks to Lazarus I found Rucka's other indy comic, Black Magic, also very good. All from picking something up 'out of curiosity.' So I am not seeing where that is a bad thing.

You seem both determined to be negative about this and insistent on doing things the way you've been doing them even though the way you've done them hasn't produced results that make you happy. If you don't want to change fine... but remember that if you keep doing the same thing, you'll keep getting the same result.
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13th Sep 2017, 3:46 AM #13
Fluffythespider

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Look, I know it sucks when you pour your heart and soul into something and no one seems to care about it. But what everyone else is saying is right--if you want readers, you have to advertise at least a little bit. No one's just clicking the random button on the homepage and checking random comics out. If you refuse to have a banner, you are throwing away free advertisement, and omitting a link to your CF site turns any who hates reading comics on DA away too, (it's too confusing for me, I won't do it).

The second thing you could do is go to the critique thread and get a critique. It's a bit of a pain to both find a thread that hasn't been replied to by 10 people before you and that is willing to do a critique above 100 pages, but it's worth it. That way you can at least get some feedback and figure out how to improve or what's not working.

If you don't do these things, then in the end, even five years after your comic has been completed, no one's going to be able to find it. The best you can do is make your next comic even better and perhaps readers will be interested in your older work and appreciate it then. But the internet is really big, and no one's sifting through it to find every hidden gem. You can hope--the internet makes it immortal. But the first advocate of your work has to be you, if you want a real shot at it.

And to answer the first question, I don't know if I'd be still doing my comic if no one read it. I was on the verge of quitting at several points, but because it a comment now and again, I didn't. If no one read it, I'd just keep on my computer or in my head, because that's far easier. The story would still exist, I created that for me. But telling a story hardly works if no one's listening.
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13th Sep 2017, 3:48 AM #14
DrewSpence

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I've seen this kinda gripe and whine numerous times before so I didn't really care to comment.
But there is a humor in all of this so here we are. lol
I call this "Determined to lose"

It's when you THINK you will lose, so you do everything to ensure you'll lose and then feel great about being right...after you lose.

Usually I get this from 'purist' artists who are soooooo artist-y that ANYTHING beyond creating more art is selling-out or against their definition of being a REAL artist.

So all the work that goes behind spreading or sharing or marketing or promoting or even in investing in your art or readership is considered BAD, breaking a rule or cheating.

They generally believe two things.
1) The road to success is though BETTER art.
2) The road to success is though Quantity as in more of the same.

If you build it, they will come.
This honestly, really isn't written for you, because I already know you know it all and don't need no stinkin advice from anybody. You got it all figured out.

But for anyone else who might say "Hey I wish I had better numbers" then maybe there's something to learn from what everyone is saying in this thread. They have all been right and have given you all the help you need. But here you are - replying and finding excuses NOT TO CHANGE. I say fine, don't change and keep being the guy with 1 pity reader. lol

To answer the question, would I be miffed?
I'd be confused and puzzled for the amount of work I put in- behind my stuff.
But that's me.

You
You got some issues.....

1) Where's the dang link to your stuff?
2) I noodled around trying to at least see your stuff before I commented...couldn't find it.
3) Went to DeviantArt, I also have an account, had a hard time finding something that read like a comic book on there..
4) What I saw looked like random pages with no way to start at the start....
5) I found no synopsis or area to see WHAT you comic was about....
6) Your art is fine and better than some of the stuff I've seen with more readers...so no excuse there.
7) Page count was like 233 or some high number, so you have enough to enjoy...
8) You, personally, look interesting- holding some kinda sword-like thing. THAT GUY should have a bad-azz comic so even there you should be gaining interest or curiosity.

But you're shooting yourself in the foot.
The readers CARE, but you don't care enough about READERS to make it easy for them to experience and enjoy your work. Again, you care about NOT HAVING READERS, but you don;t care about readers finding and enjoying your work. There's a difference.

a) You should have your comic(s) in multiple places and contained in a format that is EASY TO READ and sort through. HELLO COMIC FURY and WEBTOON.

b) You should do all the easy and free marketing things like participate in the forums and have a dang banner in your signature.

c) You should speak simply and clearly and assume everyone is scanning and glancing because humans are too lazy to read.

d) Use Deviant for what it's for, sharing your art and that's mostly scenes from your comic and fan art and such- images that will make people curious enough to check out your comic.
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13th Sep 2017, 7:25 PM #15
The Doodler

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For what it's worth, I assumed you didn't have a comic for ... most of the time we've both been on CF because your posts didn't link to one/have a banner.
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13th Sep 2017, 8:12 PM #16
Adam-00

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People are making long posts... Got too bored to read them, so, I just checked your comics, but it's not my thing (the art is not arty enough). That's how you don't get readership - though it's just me, can't tell about the others.
13th Sep 2017, 8:20 PM #17
systemcat

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This thread is not about asking how to gain readers.

This thread is not an advert for my work.

I've already repeated myself once about it's purpose.

I'm just going to ignore this forum for a while and only stay in contact with those in it I consider friends.
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