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"A controversial question.", 8 days ago, 6:58 AM #1
defo18

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A few I guess. We are all super intellegent and fun people here and I enjoy interacting on this site because other people like me can share their passion.

I am going to share another passion with you guys. Justice and Understanding.

This political era has been very educating and at some times entertaining. But I think we have come to understand each other a little more but this is something I can't understand.

Why it is so hard to call out racism?

When can someone feel outraged or critical when hearing something that maybe comes off as insensitive?

Do you feel Trump has in someway emboldened some of our not so enlightened friends?

My president said some stuff
And a few more.

I am a descendant from a shithole country. Unfortunately thanks to about 400 years of pure hell, I can only trace my family back to my great grandmother.(who was a slave.) But my mom's dad is actually from Nigeria, but there is a large ocean separating me from him. My uncle is from there. And my aunts. My whole family is either from an African nation or descendants from one. All the kids that make up my neighborhood are African Immigrants or children of them, African Americans, Hispanics and White Americans. All of these kids do not come from "shithole" places.

This stuff hurts. And I can not insult my own intelligence and decency by just being quiet or acting like I don't see it or because "I am too sensitive.
I love free speech too, believe me. But sometimes we need to plan out what words we want to use when discussing something because someone may hear.
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8 days ago, 7:25 AM #2
ChristianRepass
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You have three kinds of Donald Trump supporters, speaking from someone whose "friends and family" voted for him, and someone who had one of his toadies as a representative (Chris fucking Collins).
1) The most common, the ones who stay silent when he says stupid shit.
2) Those that have some sort of cognitive dissonance and defend him when he says stupid shit.
3) The vocal minority, and here's hoping they're the minority, the racists and skinheads.

I put quotes under "friends and family" who voted for him because still, one year after he was elected, as someone who is both bisexual and autistic, I feel betrayed by them, yet I don't have the courage to cut ties with them. Their vote for someone who's bullied people with disabilities and is known to be bigoted, even against people who are LGBT, is telling me that they lie when they say they're okay with me.

Alas, we are in an age where being uncomfortable with certain subject matter or simply caring about social issues will get you to be labeled as a SJW, as if it's worse than being bigoted. People have been offended over little things since the beginning of time, but aren't we beating up a dead horse by making fun of those who don't like offensive material? I mean, I feel like people should not be using offensive or upsetting material as a crutch so much.
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8 days ago, 8:40 AM #3
defo18

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My brothers autistic. And sometime's it's hard for him going through day to day.
Some of my friendships I've been ruined because they were hard Trump supporters to the point where they defend everything he does. And sometimes I question my friendship with some of these people. I want to be fair and say that they voted for him because they wanted to make the country better but if he is the answer to that then I am kind of upset about that.

My manager is a Trump supporter and she once told me that there were some good slave owners. Now granted, a lot of people do say stuff just out of pure ignorance but that doesn't mean I have to feel good about it or somehow have to dial down my sensitivity because someone said something out of ignorance and I'm suppose to not get upset about that. Sometimes these moments are good for educating but other times it's tiring because it's 2018. About 50 years ago we had a whole civil rights movement the fight against this type of thing yet people still do not get it. Is is pure ignorance or willful ignorance.
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8 days ago, 10:56 AM #4
Cooke
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defo18:Why it is so hard to call out racism?


It's interesting you think that because I could see nothing but people being called racist all through 2017. I would say the it's the opposite and incredibly easy, especially online. And people in real life are more emboldened too.

With regards to the article, how many times has Donald Trump been labelled a racist now? Maybe they already take it as a given so don't feel the need to point it out.

Though saying a country is a shit hole is a stretch for me on the racism grounds. Now if he had said the country was a shit hole because of the people's skin colour then yes, I would agree.
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Got away with it.
8 days ago, 12:04 PM #5
defo18

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My point was how much more do we as a people take?
There are still people defending him, his behavior, his policies. He said they were shitholes then said people from Norway should come here instead........ think about that now.

And I do get that people labeled him a racist around his campaign but I think it is kind of fitting because that is what he comes off to be. It ain't rocket science.

I guess my question should be how much more does Donald Trump need to do or say before we could all come to an a complete agreement that he needs to go? Racism is racism. We can't act like it's not there or "it's not as bad"

Merged Doublepost:

Here's something racist he did back in the day
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8 days ago, 12:59 PM #6
Cooke
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I thought the point of your post was why it's so hard to call out racism.

Nevermind then.
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8 days ago, 1:11 PM #7
Ambrose_Folly

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Unfortunately, the world is much more complicated than rocket science.

As Ghandi said: “If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. ... We need not wait to see what others do.”
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8 days ago, 1:18 PM #8
Bear

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"Do you feel Trump has in someway emboldened some of our not so enlightened friends?"

Oh absolutely ! Every deadshit, bigot and run-of-the-mill pain-in-the-arse now feels entitled to crawl out of the woodwork, like the cockroaches they are, with the feeling the clock's been turned back and continues on rewind, so they revert to spouting their shit freely, without the shackles of political correctness to hold them back !
...and not just over there ! It's happening in Brexit-fever Britain, and to some extent here on Oz.
Yeah ! Right On! Now the toupeed orange bigot is in charge "we" can say what we feel ! "We" put him there, so "we"can get our retro-vision put in place

The consolation, I always say, is at least you know then who's who, when the revolution comes....and it's time to put some people against the wall with the blindfolds on ! B-)
8 days ago, 1:19 PM #9
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defo18:I guess my question should be how much more does Donald Trump need to do or say before we could all come to an a complete agreement that he needs to go? Racism is racism. We can't act like it's not there or "it's not as bad"


Some people have the mindset of looking past a racist comment if they think the policies are good, so even if you do convince them that Trump is racist, you're really not convincing people to change their political views. Wait till 2020. We had shitty presidents before.

Merged Doublepost:

defo18:Why it is so hard to call out racism?


It isn't. The thing is that people will either deny it or not give a shit.

When can someone feel outraged or critical when hearing something that maybe comes off as insensitive?


You can feel outraged, but when you expect people to agree with you, support or participate riots, or just generally be an unpleasant citizen of society by constantly wanting to change the political outlook of people, you're gonna encounter hurdles with your political feelings.

Do you feel Trump has in someway emboldened some of our not so enlightened friends?


Isn't a strategy during elections to use political ignorance to your advantage?
8 days ago, 3:55 PM #10
defo18

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Bolderousness:Some people have the mindset of looking past a racist comment if they think the policies are good, so even if you do convince them that Trump is racist, you're really not convincing people to change their political views. Wait till 2020. We had shitty presidents before.

Merged Doublepost:



It isn't. The thing is that people will either deny it or not give a shit.



You can feel outraged, but when you expect people to agree with you, support or participate riots, or just generally be an unpleasant citizen of society by constantly wanting to change the political outlook of people, you're gonna encounter hurdles with your political feelings.


Believe me it's been a long few years I know it's very hard to try to convince someone to Trump is racist but just because his policy sound good does not mean that we should accept racist behavior. Hell yeah feelings are in this at this point because he has said a lot of hurtful things that are personal to a lot of people.

And this kind of goes beyond just the politics man. If President Obama said the things a Trump says, you can bet no one would support him.

I'm sorry I cannot just take him using politics as An excuse for him being racist. That's not being a good politician man that's just being a racist. We can not normalize that.

Racism and politics have always been close but they are not one of the same and you can be a good politician without being a racist. That's not something we should just look past.

And if it's going to a riot makes me in a place a citizen and I guess every other great American figure. Yes some protesting does not agree with everybody but I hate when they get called riots or that the citizens of being unpleasant because protesting is the most American thing you can do. You do not have to agree with that protest but they shouldn't be called unpleasant citizens man. That's a little loaded.


It's not really a Democrat or Republican thing at this point.

Merged Doublepost:

[quote=Bear]"Do you feel Trump has in someway emboldened some of our not so enlightened friends?"

Oh absolutely ! Every deadshit, bigot and run-of-the-mill pain-in-the-arse now feels entitled to crawl out of the woodwork, like the cockroaches they are, with the feeling the clock's been turned back and continues on rewind, so they revert to spouting their shit freely, without the shackles of political correctness to hold them back !
...and not just over there ! It's happening in Brexit-fever Britain, and to some extent here on Oz.
Yeah ! Right On! Now the toupeed orange bigot is in charge "we" can say what we feel ! "We" put him there, so "we"can get our retro-vision put in place

The consolation, I always say, is at least you know then who's who, when the revolution comes....and it's time to put some people against the wall with the blindfolds on ! B-)


But see a lot of people love this ideology here in America.

It's problematic for a couple reasons.

A. We are a nation with a long history of racism but tons of people I thought against it but it seems like now we are trying to normalize racist behavior because we do not want to accept the fact that we are not the post-racial society that we think we are.

B. No one is just going to sit down and let the presidents spew racist stuff without doing something about it. Online and in real life tons of people have told me that I need to ignore Trump or not let him get to me which is fine if it was coming for a place of actual understanding. They say It instead so we can hurry and drop the conversation about Trump because we can't talk without talking about him being a racist and sometimes talking about that makes people uncomfortable.



C. This is a new craze I have noticed with a lot of people is that they love Trump because he says what's on his mind. Which is bad and good. It's bad because the president really should not do that and sometimes we do not have all the facts and some the stuff we say may be offensive. It's OK to let go if it was a one time mistake but he has a pattern of doing this type of thing. If he represents what everybody wanted then that just means there are a lot of racists in the closet. The "say what we feel" crowd is also getting out of hand. Students across the country are getting caught all types of racial slurs. So to those students who are being harassed or call names. Should we tell them that they need to let it go because they're just saying what they mean? No matter how inaccurate or offensive it may come across.
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8 days ago, 4:14 PM #11
Bolderousness
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defo18:Believe me it's been a long few years I know it's very hard to try to convince someone to Trump is racist but just because his policy sound good does not mean that we should accept racist behavior. Hell yeah feelings are in this at this point because he has said a lot of hurtful things that are personal to a lot of people.

And this kind of goes beyond just the politics man. If President Obama said the things a Trump says, you can bet no one would support him.

I'm sorry I cannot just take him using politics as An excuse for him being racist. That's not being a good politician man that's just being a racist.


Then at this point, you're just preaching to the choir. No one who's not racist or a Trump supporter is gonna support the things he says. They'll either laugh, feel negative feelings, or just be flat out indifferent and numbed by the media.

And no one here said that politics is an excuse for being racist. The thing I'm saying is that no matter what, there will always be people who will gloss over the racism for the politics, and head on discussion isn't going to change their beliefs. You can keep being angry at that fact or you can accept it and find ways to work around it.
8 days ago, 4:27 PM #12
defo18

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Bolderousness:Then at this point, you're just preaching to the choir. No one who's not racist or a Trump supporter is gonna support the things he says. They'll either laugh, feel negative feelings, or just be flat out indifferent and numbed by the media.

And no one here said that politics is an excuse for being racist. The thing I'm saying is that no matter what, there will always be people who will gloss over the racism for the politics and head on discussion isn't going to change their beliefs. You can keep being angry at that fact or you can accept it and find ways to work around it.


I see but we cannot except that just because it is always been like that. It needs to change. We ARE capable of changing the government or major political system as we have done in the past. Our country was kind of built on protesting. That's a very cynical view that are used to share to be honest but as I got older I realize I cannot have that view because it will not change things.

"Isn't a strategy during elections to use political ignorance to your advantage?" That is something I cannot except any politician but I've never seen it so rampancy with Trump. Maybe it is my age because I just turned 21 but my age has nothing to do with my intelligence and I know from studying history that figures like trump do not go down in history as something to be admired.



A Head on discussion does not change believes in a single moment but it does help influence.
But the idea that people will turn off thier empathy and gloss over racism is a problem because that's how we got to this point. Yes you're not gonna change everybody but I'd rather stand up and do something that you just be quiet and let it go on.
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8 days ago, 4:58 PM #13
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8 days ago, 5:07 PM #14
defo18

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Yes!!!!
We have that power as a democracy but a lot of people forget we do.
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8 days ago, 5:35 PM #15
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Are you sure that the president's alleged comment was racially motivated?
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8 days ago, 5:41 PM #16
defo18

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It wouldn't be the first time

Merged Doublepost:

E-hero Vulven:Are you sure that the president's alleged comment was racially motivated?


Africa is a diverse continent with many different kingdoms and countries and many different people and civilizations. Some African countries have been ravaged by colonialism and corrupt governments, but there's much more to it than that and any other stereotype that we can think of. People from shit hole countries built this one.
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8 days ago, 7:18 PM #17
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E-hero Vulven:Are you sure that the president's alleged comment was racially motivated?


Trump has a long and well-documented history on this topic.

I can't name a legitimate organization outside of the GOP that would tolerate this pattern of behavior. Ask yourself this: if Old Boy was at your company, wouldn't Human Resources have pushed him out the door by now? So why do we--his ultimate employers as the American electorate--put up with it?
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8 days ago, 9:23 PM #18
defo18

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Fear.
Greed
Inability to admit when we are wrong.
Also the status quo. Whenever someone pushes the status quo there is a huge mess. No one wants to call him out because it ruins the narrative that we are a just soceity. It could be worse but it could be a whole lot better and better is what we need to strive for.
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8 days ago, 10:46 PM #19
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I'm not coloured and I got hurt with what Trump said. No country on Earth is what he says it is and he seems to have forgotten that American was built by immigrants. Honestly, I wish I could explain why people are still so racist, but the closest thing to an explanation I can come up with was what I heart on the old sitcom Family Matters; the racist people actively teach their children to be hateful and racist. It's not ok, but it's all I can think of.
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8 days ago, 11:01 PM #20
defo18

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Sometimes it's intentional sometimes it's unintentional. Society does not help either. We need to start debunking stereotypes, and actually open up to someone else's culture.
Half of the stuff could be avoided if people actually knew about someone else besides themselves.
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