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"Alabamas new abortion law", 17th May 2019, 6:14 AM #1
mightguy15

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"Conservatives want live babies, so they can be trained to be dead soldiers." ~George Carlin 1996
17th May 2019, 7:46 AM #2
MissElaney

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I mean are you really surprised that Alafuckingbama felonized abortion after the multiple multiple years that it has restricted and killed abortion access/services/education over the years? Not that that doesn't suck but like... Public widespread outrage would have been useful years ago not after several years of build up. This outrage shit is cosmetic.
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17th May 2019, 8:27 AM #3
Eaton Pye

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I think there are people who sincerely believe that abortion is murder. They voted last year in Alabama to ban abortion, by 60%. Those people don't want them to become dead soldiers, though some of them may want them to be live ones.
I think the real energy behind this, on both sides, comes from the same rich fucks who want people to fight over something that doesn't really change anything about the system of wealth and power no matter who is 'winning' at the moment. The abortion battle can be fought over and over and over again, and it will be.
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17th May 2019, 11:59 AM #4
lirvilas
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great, the taliban's superb family planning policies are now available outside of afghanistan

MissElaney:I mean are you really surprised that Alafuckingbama felonized abortion after the multiple multiple years that it has restricted and killed abortion access/services/education over the years? Not that that doesn't suck but like... Public widespread outrage would have been useful years ago not after several years of build up. This outrage shit is cosmetic.


there is something about concrete action that concentrates the mind
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17th May 2019, 12:02 PM #5
MK_Wizard

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Ok. As much as I believe in life being precious, criminalising abortion is not the solution. Abortion itself is not evil. By all means, let's guide girls to be more responsible so they don't wind up with unwanted pregnancies, but you can't take away choice. It's just wrong.
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17th May 2019, 12:22 PM #6
GabbyGood
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Supreme Court is primarily conservative. Republicans just wanna WIN something, while Alabama just wants more bodies in it's for profit prisons. With the population already being poor and uneducated what better way to turn more people to crime than restricting their options and making them murderers over some zygote or whatever mass of cells.

I just love uneducated old men telling me my body will shut itself down during rape. Like these are definitely the informed sorts of individuals I want dictating the way I use my body yep. It’s not like I dunno...educating people would do a difference. Not like proper sex education and easy access to contraceptives would lessen unwanted pregnancies.

It’s not like the separation of church and state would ever occur to these people. Perhaps maybe not using their faiths and imposing it on the rest of society to pass laws would...make a difference.

The hell do I know though?
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17th May 2019, 12:27 PM #7
MK_Wizard

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It's at times like this I am ashamed to call myself to type who believes in giving life a chance. Like... I don't like having to resort to abortion, but there are a lot of things I wouldn't do. That doesn't make them evil and like you said, Gabby, educating people about contraceptives, how sex works and also self control would help. And as a woman myself, taking choice away is just heinous.

Merged Doublepost:

I also want to add that I get that in some cases namely medical ones abortion is necessary. Nobody is a bad guy for having an abortion or performing one. I may be pro-life, but I am not a maniac about it.
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17th May 2019, 12:41 PM #8
GabbyGood
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MK_Wizard:It's at times like this I am ashamed to call myself to type who believes in giving life a chance. Like... I wouldn't do it, but there are a lot of things I wouldn't do. That doesn't make them evil and like you said, Gabby, educating people about contraceptives, how sex works and also self control would help. And as a woman myself, taking choice away is just heinous.


Awh MK the fact that you feel like others should have the option is good enough. You personally don’t ever have to make that choice if you don’t want to. And you shouldn’t feel ashamed. It’s only if you were adamantly against abortion regardless of circumstance (rape, incest etc.) that I feel we’d have a severe butting heads issue. It honestly sounds like you’re more pro choice with a preference for life but that’s fine!

Yknow since providing free birth control and cheaper contraceptive alternative, Colorado’s unwanted pregnancy and abortion rate plummeted. (This article addresses the IUD. But the numbers are there.)

It’s wild that the facts are THERE and yet other states aren’t catching on. But it’s kinda like I said before for Alabama. They just want more bodies in their prisons.
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17th May 2019, 12:50 PM #9
MK_Wizard

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I am not going to get into a debate with how my views on being pro-life are because I am not into politics. You get what I am and you know I am a humanitarian and that's good enough. I love kids, I love my fellow woman and I love everyone. Period.

If Alabama is doing that, then that's disgusting. As for the free birth control, that is a good idea, BUT I also think we should educate kids better. Like, it's not enough to teach kids how these things work. By all means, teach them that, but also teach them about sexual responsibility and how it should be for adults. Kids should not be having kids, but they should not be doing the activity that makes kids either. Plus, it's not just pregnancy. What about STDs? Most of them are not curable and even the ones that don't kill make you suffer for as long as you live. Imagine being 14 and having herpes. It's sad and nobody deserves that. At any age, but let's face the facts. Being that young and having it is worse.

The solution all comes down to educating and guiding. Not banning. And Alabama should be ashamed of itself. Here, they talk about dehumanising, but they're guiltiest of all of it. They see dollar signs when they see people.
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17th May 2019, 2:13 PM #10
Jean_Q_Citizen

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Yeah, the thing is, back when the anti-abortion people were just against abortion, that was one thing. I didn't agree, but at least I could respect their view.

The problem is now, they want to ban birth control in some cases (hello, best way to stop abortions from being necessary, duh!), and they won't even make exceptions for rape, or even the life of the mother. No. Fuck you.

Put it this way: If I'm married and the doctor tells me my wife has to die rather than abort the baby, the first person who's gonna die will be that doctor.
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17th May 2019, 2:21 PM #11
MK_Wizard

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I would never be for the woman dying. In this case... I would choose the woman. Always. I would be sad about it, but the woman has a life and people depending on her. In a case like this, it's a matter of health and acceptance. It is a sad loss to lose the baby, but it's the lesser of the two evils because more will suffer with the loss of the mother. Especially if she helped bring home the bacon and you already had some kids before.
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17th May 2019, 2:47 PM #12
MissElaney

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Regarding commentary about demographics of this, in general, yes. In Alabama, no. Abortion is not really a party line drawpoint in Alabama. Kind of like how in Texas and Vermont you can be a pro-2nd Amendment democrat with a straight face because there are some issues that bleed across party lines state by state. Alabama voters across party lines has been majority anti-abortion for fucking years, man. It's not SCOTUS that drives that, it's their flavor of Christianity. Alabama is a state where those people, in general, women included, dead-ass believe that every single baby, even in cases of rape and incest, have a divine purpose.

They generally lack decent women's health infrastructure, they do the whole abstinence-only thing because the Feds have incentivized abstinence-only school sex-ed programs by giving grants to schools that do that and have done so since like Reagan. Its not a case of men deciding what to do with women's bodies, in Alabama a shitload of female voters are anti-abortion and have been for yearssss and have voted these people in and have supported the bill, the public face of the bill is Terri Collins, the governor to sign this bill was Kay Ivey. This shit isn't something that sprang out of nowhere just because of SCOTUS, Alabama hasn't needed SCOTUS to be set up the way it is to whittle abortion clinics out of existence throughout the state over the years and be a bunch of crazy-ass shi'ite Church of Christers.

Alabama is its own goddamn world dude.

To fix Alabama you're going to have to try to fix the religious interpretation. People are coming around about homosexuality and accepting maybe they shouldn't cherry-pick that issue out of Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Maybe one day people will start to come around on abortion. There's specifically this passage in Exodus for example that differentiates between striking a pregnant woman and causing her to miscarry (punishable by fine), versus striking a pregnant woman causing her further medical harm up to death, which is then punishable in OT by death.

That passage is decent groundwork to say "listen son, the Bible evidences a hierarchy of importance of life here. Stop cherry picking." Maybe people will pick up on that shit in religious reform.
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17th May 2019, 3:09 PM #13
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Jean_Q_Citizen:the first person who's gonna die will be that doctor.

Shooting the messenger, are we?

The doctor has no say in the matter, if it's against the law. He'd lose his license and may possibly be thrown in prison, if he performs an illegal procedure.

The thing you want to be doing is fighting the law makers on the issue.
17th May 2019, 4:50 PM #14
Jean_Q_Citizen

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Well, the idiot politicians should just die on principle. :p

But that goes a bit to another issue, this whole “religious freedom” b.s. If some pharmacist won’t prescribe life-saving birth control, or a doctor won’t perform a life-saving abortion for the same reasons, we have a big problem. And some of those same idiot politicians want to give them that choice, which is asinine. Find another profession, nutjobs.
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17th May 2019, 4:58 PM #15
JammyTheBirb
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When people say religious freedom, they often mean freedom to deny others the rights they don't agree with. That's not how society should work. This is sick and disgusting.
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17th May 2019, 5:19 PM #16
lirvilas
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Next up for Alabama: making it a crime to get raped... maybe they’ll just skip straight to legalizing honor killings.

This has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with control.
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17th May 2019, 5:46 PM #17
MissElaney

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I mean, these idiot politicians are a result of getting voted in by voters who could have voted for a not-idiot politician.

Educate your voters.

I don't think the politicians idiots so much as opportunists who are doing this shit to get re-elected and preying on how optics appeal to their voters who, through either ignorance, failure to consider things, or just straight up not understanding how the legal system works do not understand how unlikely it is that Roe V Wade would ever be overruled.

Side note, there's nothing wrong with being *ignorant* -- you don't know what you don't know, how can you be faulted for that? But there's everything wrong with refusing to educate yourself given the opportunity.

Voters vote in all wild manner of shit because of their religion. Politicians put themselves behind bills that make very little sense to an outside party because they know that their religious voters will vote about shit that affirms their faith and it will get them re-elected.

Which is why Texas banned government employees from participating in boycotts of Israel. So many Texas voters are Evangelical Christians who believe that Israel's existence has extreme significance as part of the book of Revelations (like if there is peace in Israel then that is a portent of the inevitable end of the world, and so on) that pro-Israel sentiment in Texas is largely driven by affirming Evangelical Christian beliefs. I do not have an opinion on Israel, in advance. I am bringing it to you as an example that politicians do shit all the time specifically to get voted in by their strongly religious base.

Back on topic, Terri is making this huge deal about going after Roe V Wade and the floorshow is the only reason why anybody gives a shit about Alabama. Nobody seems from my perspective to care that Missouri is doing the exact same thing for the exact same reasons, by the way. The massive majority of people reacting to this are far more more interested in fanning outrage after the frog has been boiled, cut up, served, eaten, and shit out. Missouri is doing the same goddamn thing, several states are passing anti-abortion laws (how concrete does the action need to be?) but everyone is freaking out about specifically and pretty much only Alabama now and not five, ten, twenty years ago.

Terri is making a big fucking deal about how she's trying to overturn Roe V Wade. Even though it's not going to happen and even though she knows it and even though Kavanaugh isn't in her fucking corner despite his conservative views. Kavanaugh said that Roe V. Wade is standing precedent and he doesn't want to revisit it.

But most of her voters are rabidly anti-abortion who don't pay attention to that. They don't stop to consider that overturning Roe V wade is disruptive as fuck to the point where nobody's going to do that shit, they'd have to fuck with reaffirmations of RVW such as Planned Parenthood v. Casey 1991, and even if you are anti-abortion to overturn Roe V Wade would also include altering your constitutional right to privacy so it's not exactly just an abortion thing, you would have opposition beyond the scope of abortion.

This has everything to do with getting political cred from Alabama voters by passing an unconstitutional bill that will make her look like she stood in the face of adversity as a woman of faith when, not if, the shit gets ruled as unconstitutional.

It is cold blooded and at the expense of her own citizens but she doesn't give a shit because she knows the Church of Christ and Baptists and whatever else is over there because I'm a dirty heathen in California -- will vote for her ass. It would be reductive to say that it is only faith but to say this has nothing to do with faith is reductive as hell as well.
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17th May 2019, 8:09 PM #18
Eaton Pye

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MissElaney:I mean, these idiot politicians are a result of getting voted in by voters who could have voted for a not-idiot politician.



Not-idiot politicians (as you define them later) not on the menu.
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17th May 2019, 8:15 PM #19
Jean_Q_Citizen

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Eaton Pye:Not-idiot politicians (as you define them later) not on the menu.


Not in Alabama, especially.
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17th May 2019, 8:17 PM #20
MK_Wizard

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JammyTheBirb:When people say religious freedom, they often mean freedom to deny others the rights they don't agree with. That's not how society should work. This is sick and disgusting.


As a religious person, I feel ashamed when people do that. My Lord never meant for us to oppress each other. We are all equal even if we don't all agree on the same things. And if the Lord gives everyone the same chances, we should do that with each other. At least, that's what I was taught.

I am so sad that other people of the same faith could be misguided that way.
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