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"Style Tests", 12th Jun 2019, 2:22 AM #1
MissElaney

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ALRIGHT !!!

My goal is to maintain Ikon's crazy detailed artwork but uh, like, update...at a normal pace. So I'm going to be doing 3D models and paintovers. This is going to call for a lot of work at first to do the modeling and the shaders and shit, but, I have done so with a graveyard and while I could stand to tweak the shaders, uh

Well

look here it is

image

This doesn't stretch MY screen but if it stretches yours lmk and I'll spoiler it.

Mainly I want to know:

Importantest Question: Does the 3D rendered background plus my art style look jarring or does it mesh? I don't ... 3d is a hairy subject for me and like, ...IDK dude I think some 3D comics are REALLY goddamn jarring (there I said it) and I don't want to look like that, man. I want it to flow with my artstyle. Does it? I'm gonna tweak it over time but I hope that where I'm at right now does at least kind of flow with my art style?

Lesser Important Question:
Does the style depicted here flow with or contrast against my source material/inspiration, which I have posted below so you can take a lookie-loo. I don't want to COPY it but I want to get that uh, IDK, ...That feel. It's 90 degrees in my brain r/n due to no AC in the summer on the 6th floor.

Inspiration #1: Byzantine iconography like so -
image

Inspiration #2: The film Brat' (along with a few others but this is a cult classic so)
image

image
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12th Jun 2019, 2:52 AM #2
lirvilas
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If you hadn't said anything, I would have assumed you'd drawn/magick'd the whole panel.

Having called yourself out, the non-smooth portions of the iron fence silhouette are the only things that suggests "3D background".

Really cool seeing the source material (which I don't believe had made any appearances in your pages so far). You really need to bang this project out.

Apologies for the accidental "dislike" in the other thread.
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12th Jun 2019, 3:28 AM #3
BMR

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It might just be because I do a lot of work with 3D, but there are some parts that come off as renders to me. But, as I said, that's because I work mostly with Blender and stuff, so I some things do catch my eye.

That said though, if I didn't work with Blender a lot, I agree with lirvilas that it does indeed look drawn/painted. I do spot a few fireflies here and there, but that's nothing a denoising won't fix. I'd say for the average person, it looks pretty seamless, with nothing really jumping out to them that the background was generated.

Out of curiosity, would you be willing to show your node setup for how you did this? Would be neat to see how it's accomplished from a technical standpoint.

(Oh, and it does indeed stretch my screen, but I'm on a pair of relatively cheap monitors that only go up to 1366×768, so that might not be too much to worry about. Well... technically they can go up to 1600×900, but drivers/hardware/gremlins problems limits me.)
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12th Jun 2019, 3:53 AM #4
Eaton Pye

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I agree with Lirvilas that the main giveaway on 3D is the iron fence- where you don't seem to have painted over it. Other stuff is pretty straight, though, and could use stroking over with a brush by hand.
While it doesn't really look '3D' in the way that I think you're most concerned about, it doesn't really look painted in a lot of areas either. What does that leave? I dunno, but it's another way to look very 'contemporary.'

Regarding your inspirations- they are in quite a lot of conflict with each other, so you would have to be more specific about how you see each of them influencing the style. It's pretty hard to do something that's not medieval that references Byzantine perspective, for instance, and it's probably good that you don't seem to be trying. As far as painting and handling color, the Byzantine is a lot higher key than your sample page, and most of your pages that I've seen. I can see you trying to apply 'paint' in a similar fashion, but I think you're getting more blending and less stiffness. A nicer look, but I'm not getting that vibe.

I can dig your desire to bring that in on a high-concept level, but I think the color-route isn't going to work, even if you got the rendering style down pat, I don't think it would convey the vibe. To me, the key is gestural and compositional formalism. If you organize the image in the right way, it doesn't need to have the same brushwork or the same colors at all, in fact it could be the kind of dusty sepia-tone of Brat and still invoke that Byzantine vibe. That might be a bit over-the-top, though, because it would toss the snap-shot naturalism you've been using out the window.

In short, I think you've set yourself some conflicting goals and you're going to need to refine the crap out of them.
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12th Jun 2019, 6:05 AM #5
dpat57
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I think you get away with it (although there's really nothing to "get away with") and should continue doing that, it's pleasant on the eye, my attention was drawn to the character and the plaques.
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12th Jun 2019, 6:14 AM #6
MissElaney

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@Lirvilas
Thank you! I do indeed. I have a webdev project that takes priority so I am not going to be able to make reasonable progress on it until probably August but hopefully I can get a little in before then... One day, one day. I'm just, fekken busy. Also, man, I wouldn't've even noticed the dislike, its kew.

@BMR
Sure, I am happy to roll it out for you. Getting the screenshots together is not something I can do at the moment but -

1. Render tab: light paths, transparency max/min at 4; bounces max/min 2; diffuse 0, glossy 1, transmission 2
2. Scene tab: Color management is taken care of not by Srgb but Filmic, low contrast
3. I'm using a drawn sky environment texture
4. My materials all start with the same setup: hook up an RGB node to 3 Toon BDSFs for your mid, high-mid and highlights and use an ADD not a MIX shader, and control how dark it gets by using an emitter.
5. I'm using a sun light with size 0 and strength like 15 or 30 or something insane that you would neer put in normal blender if you aren't using filmic color management.

So on the left it's RGB, in between it's an emitter (str 0.125) and 3 toon-bdsfs (sizes you play with but like, .6, .4, .2), all 4 are hooked up to an rgb color node. They feed into 2 *add* shaders and those 2 add shaders go into the output node.

@Pye
I gotta get up in 6 hours and my alarm went off so i'll have to respond to ur candy ass later D:<
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12th Jun 2019, 12:25 PM #7
Mothtrap
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I'm gonna very un-usefully say there's something vaguely off about it. Maybe it is just because I know it's 3d, but the tell for me is how the perspective and the shapes are almost too perfect. You've got very clean cuboids (especially with the graves on the right) with bit of perspective in the y axis which I don't think you'd usually draw in a scene like this and the shapes are all very clean and smooth. Wonkier edges might help? Anyway it's definitely a lot less jarring than a lot of the examples you'll see on webtoon where the characters and BGs don't match at all, yours overall looks pretty coherent.

More important might be how a whole page looks with all the panels done like this, because that might be where you start seeing it come together or the 3D-ness might become more obvious?

ALso
I really like the colours on your current graveyard scene and make this one look a bit washed out, idk if this is to do with the render but everything on this scene is sort of a similar value and nothing stands out particularly. Is there any way to make it do something like atmospheric perspective so the further away stuff is lighter?

So it's not super jarring but there is something a bit weird about it, if it saves loads of time it's probably worth it especially if those weird things can be fixed
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12th Jun 2019, 2:34 PM #8
Eaton Pye

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MissElaney:

@Pye
I gotta get up in 6 hours and my alarm went off so i'll have to respond to ur candy ass later D:<


You sweet talker...
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12th Jun 2019, 2:46 PM #9
MissElaney

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@ pye
Ya sé bien como vate el chocolaaatee

As for how they go together yeah they seriously don't :(. The film factors in largelyThematically and for historical reference. Brother is not a terribly cinematic film. But it just has this jaded attitude that I like. The visual elements from byzantine art I...mainly want to capture the while light filled world thing that they tend to have going on. I don't want to do the whole byzantine Canon of Proportions because it's just so uncanny valley to me and the visual language for this type of art is so full of nuanced meaning that I'll be "saying" the wrong thing if I incorporate a super faithful replication of it so yeah I do gotta seriously think it through.

@moth I'm using my phone on my 10 min break to browse so I'll get back to you but I am honored to get feedback from the beef master
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12th Jun 2019, 5:57 PM #10
Eaton Pye

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Ai ai ai!

So, if it were me (and it's not), I would go with the film kinda look and then tint in the symbolic color thinly like in an old hand-coloured photo. In other words, keep the color symbolism but completely abandon the Byzantine 'look.' Will anybody get it? Not unless you point it out to them, but that's okay, right?
I think this might have some major advantages in using the 3D models as a base, too. A quick monochrome paint-over for texture, and then thin color overlays as needed.
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12th Jun 2019, 6:16 PM #11
MissElaney

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It's ay ay ay you fukken non-white cismale
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12th Jun 2019, 6:20 PM #12
Eaton Pye

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MissElaney:It's ay ay ay you fukken non-white cismale


What? I'm not a sailor.

Let me know when my feelings should be hurt cause I got this autism thing going on and I really have no idea. Also, I made you a sample of what I'm talking about, but I don't know how to upload the fucker to a comment.
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12th Jun 2019, 7:22 PM #13
Shekets
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I'm only lurking this thread because I want to see the interactions of Eaton and Elaney

Uhhh
Style good, goo goo gah gah
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12th Jun 2019, 9:27 PM #14
Robotwin.com

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It's not jarring to me. Looks good. Except your dude doesn't cast a shadow, which is consistent with medieval art, but not with your 3D rendering. So maybe you need to either dispense with shadows altogether, or paint people's shadows to match. Medieval art is characterized by super-saturated color, hard-edged halos, absence of cast shadows, lack of 3D perspective, gold leaf, and mainly religious icons wore that fantastic cerulean (or is it ultramarine?) blue fabric, because blue was rare and expensive in them days.
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