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"How often does art fundimetals come into play while your working on you comics?", 9 days ago, 6:36 PM #1
mightguy15

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I think the biggest reason my art sucks so hard is because I never bother with fundamentals at all. I use head ratios, and I study perspective. Everything else I say screw it and simply wing drawing it until it looks good. It works well enough, but maybe I need a fresh pair of eyes to give me a serious view?

To you fellow comic book artist no matter what you feel your skill level is, how often do you feel fundamentals such as color theory and studying perspective, form and line work play into your work?
9 days ago, 6:42 PM #2
Zero Hour

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I had a lot of fundimentals like this in my studies, but I just mostly incorporate things like this on an unconscious level
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9 days ago, 6:55 PM #3
mightguy15

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Interesting. I wish I had that capability, lol. It seems people who study it enough get so talented with these fundamentals that they manage to reach a point in time where they simply incorporate it in that way.

As for here, when I want to incorporate those fundamentals, it feels fake and intentional if you know what I mean. I'm currently working on a page where tsokaka gets punched and I want to emphasize on the characters weight and speed. It, just doesn't look right no matter what I do....

Yukuke Murata (my favorite comic book artist of all time) does it on the daily like it's nothing and it drives me mad.
9 days ago, 6:58 PM #4
Zero Hour

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Yusuke Murata is both extremely talented and has years of experience, but I think it's like everything, if you exercise it, it could become a second nature
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9 days ago, 7:11 PM #5
MK_Wizard

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It comes into play when I am drawing body types, the way details like hair grows and of course textures.
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9 days ago, 7:34 PM #6
Socratatus

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mightguy15:I think the biggest reason my art sucks so hard is because I never bother with fundamentals at all. I use head ratios, and I study perspective. Everything else I say screw it and simply wing drawing it until it looks good. It works well enough, but maybe I need a fresh pair of eyes to give me a serious view?

To you fellow comic book artist no matter what you feel your skill level is, how often do you feel fundamentals such as color theory and studying perspective, form and line work play into your work?


I never learned any of that stuff. I just copied like crazy from my fave comics until I started doing my own thing. I did go to art classes for a bit but was really disappointed. I felt I learned very little.

This is likely why my perspectives is a little ropey.

Color theory and all that stuff- I wing it and play it by eye.

However, I did learn some new stuff when I decided to do art through the pc.
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9 days ago, 7:38 PM #7
MK_Wizard

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Honestly, lots of people don't have formal training and make great art. In fact, many people who have formal training break the rules anyway.
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9 days ago, 7:42 PM #8
Socratatus

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I am of the thinking that too much art training can take away from that subtle difference each artist has in his approach to his work.
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9 days ago, 8:02 PM #9
Sovember

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Well I Definitely know at least the basics of anatomy, perspective and color theory but far far from a master. And ive developed my own Frankenstein techniques if anything xD. Its something im practicing on the side especially color and composition , but im more concerned with getting the story out there faster in a way thats close to how I envisioned it :). Guess more writer than artist in priority, Murata is indeed a beast with enormous talent and experience in animation industry I believe. he does also take his time on lining too, very meticulous and cinematic art, especially compared to our lord and savior our ONE (no offense to sensei).
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9 days ago, 8:14 PM #10
deo101
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The reason they're called "fundamentals" and not "guidelines" or "rules" is that they're meant to build off of.
they're tools used to inform your art and in turn your readers, visually, of whats happening.

all of my art, everything I make is influenced by the fundamentals I have studied for years... Whether it's on a comic page, a chibi, or an illustration.
And, it is something that I actively think about. I think most artists need to actively think about it too, which is why we study them so hard. Art is just a series of decisions and studying fundamentals makes those decisions more informed, accurate, and easier.
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9 days ago, 8:35 PM #11
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If you know the fundamentals, then all the time. Can't think about something that you don't know or understand.
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9 days ago, 9:27 PM #12
whiteshaix

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I have a degree in illustration, I still use lots of references in my comics. Anatomy most of all, but every one of my main characters is based on a real model.
Action scenes are a whole different beast. I usually sketch them in "chibi mode" until I think the motion looks right, then change proportions and draw them properly.
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9 days ago, 9:56 PM #13
Kelsey -Nutty- P.
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Socratatus:I am of the thinking that too much art training can take away from that subtle difference each artist has in his approach to his work.


Cannot disagree with this enough.

Training with art doesn't remove any part of you or your style. If anything, understanding the fundamentals only strengthens your own style.
9 days ago, 10:13 PM #14
swamp
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It's hard to go from 'just learning' to 'keeping in mind color composition, light theory, object composition, perspective, anatomy, tangents, ect, ect ect in every panel'. It's good to work on all the fundamentals you can, but some will seem natural, and others will take time. Personally, it's only in the last two years I really felt like I was starting to 'get' color theory.

Like people have been saying, a lot comes naturally, but a lot are, or started as, things I just knew to watch for. 'wow I sure have a lot of talking heads on this page', 'hmm, my dialouge box kinda merges with his hand', 'wow, I'm pretty sure the light changed directions between panels here'. At first, you may spend a lot of time fixing mistakes, but slowly, it becomes habit.

Some panels take more thought than others though. I usually don't spend as much time on composition as I used to, but some panels I sketch 5 or 6 times before I figure out how to make it work.
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9 days ago, 10:15 PM #15
Dyohna

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The fundamentals are something you imbue into your heart so you never forget its strength even if you're not always aware of its presence. Use it like you would any of the 6 senses.. sight, sound, hearing, touch, taste, and heart.
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9 days ago, 10:53 PM #16
snuffysam

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I don't draw my comic at all, so I have a unique perspective on this issue.

And I will tell you, as a 3D artist - I 100% use art fundamentals in my work.

Like, there's no way I would know how to model or pose characters if I didn't have form references. Granted, sometimes I use other artworks as references so I know how to abstract things better, and of course I'll exaggerate features to make things more stylistic - but the form fundamentals are still there.

Sure, the machine does all the perspective calculations for me, but that just frees up time for me to think about how depth affects the comic's art. How things further away from the camera are perceived differently from things closer and such. I'll often change the camera's field of view and mess with scale to force the reader to see the perspective of a particular shot differently.

And of course, my comic is heavy on incorporating color theory. I think about the implications of each character's color palette when I model them, and each environment is meant to give off a certain feel with its colors. If I want a panel to give off different emotions than what the current color palettes would suggest, I'll re-color the panel in Photoshop or code a completely new shader script.

So yes, even one of the most abstract, shortcut-iest artists on this site uses fundamentals.

mightguy15:As for here, when I want to incorporate those fundamentals, it feels fake and intentional if you know what I mean. I'm currently working on a page where tsokaka gets punched and I want to emphasize on the characters weight and speed. It, just doesn't look right no matter what I do....


Which specific art fundamentals are breaking the feel of the panel? Can you post the WIP in here?
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8 days ago, 2:28 AM #17
Kourtney

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I ain't ever learned no fancy fundamentals. I literally just picked up a pencil and paper one day and began drawing.

Looking back, I wish I had gone to art school instead of STEM, because making comics is where my true passion always was.
8 days ago, 2:36 AM #18
swamp
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I didn't go to art school either. I got a few classes, but pretty much everything I learned is from books/podcasts/youtube. Most libraries have a few solid art books.

Another great resource is portfolio reviews!
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8 days ago, 3:53 AM #19
smbhax

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Everything you learn or experience is going to play into your work. Keep practicing and observing and working to get better.

I wouldn't worry too much about labels like "fundamentals." For instance, most people think of as "perspective" for drawing is a series of shortcuts to fake up a rigid sort of simulation of how our eyes view distance, a geometric trick that isn't even optically accurate. If you think it'll help you or you just like the look, sure, learn it if you want, but these are all just gimmicks previous artists have come up with to get a certain look.

All that being said, it probably doesn't hurt to know as much as you can, so you can decide whether to use it or not. Don't get stuck looking at just one set of things.

As for what the mangaka you cite is doing, it's probably based on many years of intense, daily art work. Again, practice. But also bear in mind that the "fundamentals" of Japanese manga art are in many cases very different than the "fundamentals" usually taught in Western art, and the type of techniques and styles they learn and practice are often quite different--heck, the hand motions and line style they learn just from learning to write are very different from what we are taught from a young age in the West. So trying to do what they do in the same style is probably not going to work, because your experience is different; Westerners who try too hard to ape a Japanese style often end up just copying bits of it, and trying to cobble these bits into imitation drawings that have no understanding of the reasons why the originals were drawn the way they were in the first place.
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8 days ago, 1:18 PM #20
mightguy15

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snuffysam:I don't draw my comic at all, so I have a unique perspective on this issue.

And I will tell you, as a 3D artist - I 100% use art fundamentals in my work.

Like, there's no way I would know how to model or pose characters if I didn't have form references. Granted, sometimes I use other artworks as references so I know how to abstract things better, and of course I'll exaggerate features to make things more stylistic - but the form fundamentals are still there.

Sure, the machine does all the perspective calculations for me, but that just frees up time for me to think about how depth affects the comic's art. How things further away from the camera are perceived differently from things closer and such. I'll often change the camera's field of view and mess with scale to force the reader to see the perspective of a particular shot differently.

And of course, my comic is heavy on incorporating color theory. I think about the implications of each character's color palette when I model them, and each environment is meant to give off a certain feel with its colors. If I want a panel to give off different emotions than what the current color palettes would suggest, I'll re-color the panel in Photoshop or code a completely new shader script.

So yes, even one of the most abstract, shortcut-iest artists on this site uses fundamentals.



Which specific art fundamentals are breaking the feel of the panel? Can you post the WIP in here?


Hmm, that's an interesting perspective. I think that's the biggest reason I'm struggling with my own 3d comic, as I neglect fineness for it even worse than my 2D work. Thank you for sharing.


Unfortunately, I've deleted the page, but I'm so terrible with perspective, I'll most likely upload again when I inevitably fall to produce the desired image.

Merged Doublepost:

swamp:I didn't go to art school either. I got a few classes, but pretty much everything I learned is from books/podcasts/youtube. Most libraries have a few solid art books.

Another great resource is portfolio reviews!


I'm self taught too minus a high school course. I'm beginning to seriously consider schooling though.

Merged Doublepost:

Dyohna:The fundamentals are something you imbue into your heart so you never forget its strength even if you're not always aware of its presence. Use it like you would any of the 6 senses.. sight, sound, hearing, touch, taste, and heart.


Dang, I feel like the guy that got hit with one of them anime protagonist "never give up" speeches. It helps your icon is absolutely adorable too. Dang those good vibes are contagious, I'm actually beginning to feel like this is something I can actually not be terrible at now, lol.

Merged Doublepost:

Zero Hour:Yusuke Murata is both extremely talented and has years of experience, but I think it's like everything, if you exercise it, it could become a second nature


Yeah, maybe comparing myself to him is a bit silly. He's been drawing for longer than I have been alive.

Merged Doublepost:

MK_Wizard:Honestly, lots of people don't have formal training and make great art. In fact, many people who have formal training break the rules anyway.


I've heard a lot about great artist who produce work that's even better than usually by breaking fundamentals, but they typically still have quite the understanding of it eh?
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