Forum > General discussion > So, Coronavirus
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8 days ago, 7:57 AM #261
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RJDG14:Takeaways are exempted from the opening ban, though.

Huge relief; I need those!


A nice bit of news, mostly. :)
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8 days ago, 12:42 PM #262
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GMan003:... If you wash your hands too often, you get dry skin - which can, ironically, open you to infection. And you may need to sanitize when away from running water, such as in your car.
That's where I use it most often: Disinfect the steering wheel and the things you touch often in the car, I hope that time will do the rest.
GMan003:So I've been washing my hands before eating and after evacuating, and using hand sanitizer elsewhere. I've found a spray bottle of isopropyl-based sanitizer very handy for disinfecting objects.
I do it now whenever I come back from the outside of my flat. Thinking about it, the "place" one has the least control over is the floor, might be a good idea to clean the floor more often...

GMan003, since you are good at explaining (no joke, you are!), what about the dangers of sanitizers on skin?


Merged Doublepost:

elektro:... but I've only been able to talk to him over the phone since this COVID scare got started. The truth is that I've been feeling like I'm ready to go over the edge again, and all of the hysteria is bringing my closer to it.

Putting it like that still sounds as if you don't believe it. I'm not as good at explaining but here I try: What you said at the bottom is true, but there are two aspects and a little twist. The twist is, these measures are rather about tweaking the odds (of catching it) in your favor, each of the inconvenient little things increases your chances of staying healthy. Doing these things is within your power, some of them are enforced by the government but you are the only one to decide whether or not to do them and actually do them.
By tweaking the odds to your favor you also protect others (if you don't catch it, you can't pass it on to someone else), like your father. He is in a high risk group, so you might want to do all you can to keep him healthy. There's little you can do about other except displaying a good example and, well, tell them to wash hands and keep a distance. But I'm under the impression that you still don't believe these measures would be beneficial.

elektro:That said, I feel like the best thing to do is to prepare for the worst, whatever that may be. I've been building up my Vitamin C intake lately, and I have been preparing myself for the worst case scenario in case the whole system bottoms out. The only thing I wanted to point out the other day was this: don't expect the government or anyone else to be the magic pill that will come and save everything. Only you (whoever you are) can save yourself.
Not sure about Vitamin C in this situation. It helps with colds but this "attack against the body" may be different.

Also, to save or not to save is somewhat a poor concept, this is not a black-or-white thing. There is nothing that will keep you 100% safe, and there is also no guarantee that you will get it of you don't care at all - but there is a world between these extremes and every time you, say, wash your hands (of course not every other minute, as Gman003 already explained) you push the slider of your personal amount of luck a little bit more in the direction of your favor.
8 days ago, 3:49 PM #263
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...(RockB):GMan003, since you are good at explaining (no joke, you are!), what about the dangers of sanitizers on skin?


Okay so full disclosure, biology and chemistry are some of my weaker areas - this outbreak has driven me to learn a lot of new stuff, but it's still new to me. I might be getting some of the fiddlier details wrong. But this is how it works, best as I can tell.

Hand sanitizer is normally alcohol based, either ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol, aka "yes the stuff in booze") or isopropanol (aka isopropyl alcohol), with other sanitizers (eg. hydrogen peroxide), and usually glycerol as a gelling agent. The alcohol can dry your skin out - it dissolves the oils on your skin, which serve as a protective layer - but not by all that much. And store-bought stuff usually has moisturizing agents like aloe vera to counteract that, as well as other sanitizing agents just to kill as much as possible. And unlike washing your hands, hand sanitizer doesn't physically remove anything, so it's not acceptable eg. after taking a shit.

The main safety risk from alcohol-based sanitizer is, surprisingly, its flammability. Especially the higher-grade stuff - 95% ethanol is literally high-grade fuel, like that's exactly what powered the V-2 missiles. So, uh, don't slather your hands in sanitizer before going out for a smoke. The stuff does evaporate fairly quickly, and store-bought stuff is usually a lot weaker than 95%. My hand sanitizer is 60%, and the jug of isopropyl alcohol I use for cleaning thermal paste off processors is only 70% (remainder water, not gel). But still, it earned a paragraph on wikipedia so it gets a mention from me.

Alcohol-free sanitizers seem to be pretty safe, at the cost of not being as effective, particularly against viruses. Doctors are not recommending alcohol-free sanitizer against coronavirus. And they're still a minor skin irritant, because anything that can destroy a bacterial cell is going to at least damage a human skin cell. Our skin cells are more heavily "armored" than most bacteria, and you can lose the top couple layers with no problem, but it's still not going to be great.

Soap also gets rid of the oils on your skin, much more aggressively than alcohol. It's kind of the atom bomb of sanitizer - pretty much nothing survives it, and anything that does is going to be knocked loose and rinsed off anyways. But it's known to cause skin problems with frequent use - dermatitis is apparently common among hospital workers. So don't go crazy with it.

The WHO recommendations for "when should I wash my hands?" is basically:
1) After going to the bathroom or handling poop
2) After handling raw meat
3) Before eating or feeding someone
4) Before surgery

... you probably won't be affected by that last one. But that's like what, six times a day? Your skin can take that, no problem. It's really only a problem when you're washing your hands dozens of times a day. If you find yourself washing your hands every fifteen minutes, you're probably overdoing it. Most everyone should be fine.

Your idea of washing hands after returning home from the Outside World is probably a good one. Can't hurt, if you're following the advice of social distancing and staying home as much as possible.

Merged Doublepost:

...(RockB):Not sure about Vitamin C in this situation. It helps with colds but this "attack against the body" may be different.


Vitamin C doesn't even help with colds, beyond the basic "if you're dying of scurvy you're probably not going to deal with infection well". Research has found no link between higher vitamin C doses and disease prevention. Once you've got enough to keep your body running smoothly, it has no further benefits. In particular, it does absolutely nothing once you're already sick.

Additionally, extremely high doses of vitamin C are harmful. It can cause diarrhea, kidney damage, anemia, and general metabolic fuckery. Like with handwashing, it's only dangerous at several times the recommended level - on the order of multiple grams per day. It's not going to kill you (estimated LD50 is 12g/kg, or 800 grams for the average person), but it's still not a great idea. I know there's a lot of books and youtube videos that go on about how vitamin C megadoses can cure anything, they're bullshit. Actual science has found nothing.
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8 days ago, 8:48 PM #264
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If you can't get your hands on surgical masks for protection, here's something that might help, a DIY from Hong Kong (it's in English). The instruction with images is towards the bottom of the page, and it looks really sinple to do.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3050689/how-make-your-own-mask-hong-kong-scientists

EDIT: Solid numbers: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html

And if you are interested in the doubling rates: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/coronavirus-zahlen-daten-1.4844448
Check out the second image/table. The column labelled "Verdopplung" gives you the rate of days after which the numbers of infected are doubled, in each country. For example, Germany has a double rate of 2.8, we now (Saturday) have known 22.000 infected, and in roughly three days (Tuesday), it will 44.0000. In comparision, the USA has a double rate of 2, so with known 24.000 infected today, there will be 48.000 in two days (Monday).
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8 days ago, 9:17 PM #265
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NIH.gov:The scientists found that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel.


From:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces
(Sorry if this has already been posted)
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8 days ago, 9:22 PM #266
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I read a lot that the masks don’t work as protecting you, so much as protecting others. I’d really like a qualified source on that, one way or the other, though.
8 days ago, 9:28 PM #267
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GMan003:

Merged Doublepost:



Vitamin C doesn't even help with colds, beyond the basic "if you're dying of scurvy you're probably not going to deal with infection well". Research has found no link between higher vitamin C doses and disease prevention. Once you've got enough to keep your body running smoothly, it has no further benefits. In particular, it does absolutely nothing once you're already sick.

Additionally, extremely high doses of vitamin C are harmful. It can cause diarrhea, kidney damage, anemia, and general metabolic fuckery. Like with handwashing, it's only dangerous at several times the recommended level - on the order of multiple grams per day. It's not going to kill you (estimated LD50 is 12g/kg, or 800 grams for the average person), but it's still not a great idea. I know there's a lot of books and youtube videos that go on about how vitamin C megadoses can cure anything, they're bullshit. Actual science has found nothing.



I have nothing to really say in this thread but now this is my area of expertise so I'm gonna explain why you should take vitamin c when you're sick.
Yeah vitamin c doesn't help to fight infection in any way but it helps your body to neutralize free radicals it produced itself. Free radicals are constantly produced in your body, they are (by)products of various biochemical reactions that happen all the time in the cells. They are linked with various diseases (look it up if you're interested, we literally don't know how damaging they may be yet but they have been linked eith things like Alzheimer so that's very interesting). But your body also uses them in immune response - they are used to destroy any foreign organism that shouldn't be there. When you're sick your body is producing them like crazy and they are not specific so they just destroy everything on their way - including your cells. Now vitamin c is an antioxidant - which mean that it can neutralize free radicals. So yeah it doesn't help to fight the illness but it helps with the aftermath of the fight and can lower the damage your body takes. Of course you can take any other antioxidant, and of course you can get hypervitaminosis, but generally speaking if you're feeling bad you can safely drink some vitamin c and it may help.

To not be completely off topic everything in my country closed almost a week ago so I'm just chilling there. It feels very like Camus' La Peste so I guess that's both exciting and terrifying. Wash your hands, stay safe and flatten the curve everyone
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8 days ago, 9:37 PM #268
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Haze:I read a lot that the masks don’t work as protecting you, so much as protecting others. I’d really like a qualified source on that, one way or the other, though.


If you go to this page: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html
It has a segment: What makes N95 respirators different from facemasks (sometimes called a surgical mask)?
In the final point of that segment, it says:
"The role of facemasks is for patient source control, to prevent contamination of the surrounding area when a person coughs or sneezes.  Patients with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 should wear a facemask until they are isolated in a hospital or at home. The patient does not need to wear a facemask while isolated."
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8 days ago, 10:09 PM #269
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Haze:I read a lot that the masks don’t work as protecting you, so much as protecting others. I’d really like a qualified source on that, one way or the other, though.


Assuming you’re talking about those surgical masks - those types of masks are really more designed to lessen the germs leaving your mouth. The intent of wearing it is to prevent others around you from getting sick, should you have something.

Assuming you’re talking about those masks commonly found in hardware stores - those types of masks are more designed to filter out particles in the air before you breathe it in, though it still won’t filter out the virus.

In the worst-case scenario, the masks can serve as a breeding ground for germs (the inside of the masks can become moist, particularly if you sweat a lot, talk a lot, or end up sneezing inside of it).

There are standards out there that these masks have to follow, and manufacturers may also provide a technical data sheet. You can look them up if you want to get a better technical sense of how these masks work.
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8 days ago, 10:28 PM #270
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Holy hell, they added curfews here as well but I don't care because I don't really go out after 10 PM.
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8 days ago, 11:55 PM #271
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For the past year or so I've been doing part-time volunteer work at a local charity store that sells furniture and electrical goods. A couple of weeks ago I started to feel poorly - hopefully just regular flu - so I took some time off. Then the whole situation blew up, and I'd been wondering whether it was worth going back in, since buying furniture might not be people's biggest concern right now.

Well, when I checked at the store today, Saturday 21 March, I found the decision had been made for me. The place was dark and forlorn, with signs all over the doors and windows saying it was closed until further notice. Same story with all of the other charitable outlets in town, apparently. No cafes open either, except a few doing takeout. Sigh.

Now I'd be the first to admit that I'm not the most sociable of men, but I do occasionally like to get out and about. Right now, though, it looks like I'll be joining most of the rest of the population and spending the spring and summer at home.

And everywhere's out of toilet paper.
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One week ago, 1:54 AM #272
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I remember having seen something on reddit where a doctor explained something about masks and respirators but now I can't find it anymore.

Instead I found this on reddit:
Comments:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fmhjju/we_need_an_immediate_fiveweek_national_lockdown/
Linked article:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/03/21/coronavirus-america-needs-five-week-national-lockdown-column/2890376001/

Also found via reddit:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2020/03/20/coronavirus-is-growing-faster-in-the-united-states-than-any-other-country-in-the-world/#7fb0f7227e72

I guess if the government doesn't force you to minimize personal contact, you have to take matters into your own hands >:-|
Huh. I hope that's not political.



GMan003:
...

Vitamin C doesn't even help with colds, beyond the basic "if you're dying of scurvy you're probably not going to deal with infection well". Research has found no link between higher vitamin C doses and disease prevention. Once you've got enough to keep your body running smoothly, it has no further benefits. In particular, it does absolutely nothing once you're already sick.
Can't provide any science, maybe it's just a (positive) kind of self-fulfilling prophecy / placebo effect or whatnot, but my personal experience is that, when I feel like getting a common cold, increasing* on Vitamin C helps with shortening it and keep the symptoms milder, if you take it from the very beginning on. A few days in and it doesn't make a difference, at least I didn't notice. That's all anecdotal and your milage may vary yadda yadda.


GMan003:Additionally, extremely high doses of vitamin C are harmful. It can cause diarrhea, kidney damage, anemia, and general metabolic fuckery. Like with handwashing, it's only dangerous at several times the recommended level - on the order of multiple grams per day. It's not going to kill you (estimated LD50 is 12g/kg, or 800 grams for the average person), but it's still not a great idea. I know there's a lot of books and youtube videos that go on about how vitamin C megadoses can cure anything, they're bullshit. Actual science has found nothing.

The powder is usually sold in 200g plastic cans. 800g would be 4 of these cans per day, even the imagination... >_< Ascorbic acid is an acid and it tastes very much like an acid, about like concentrated lemon juice with a few drops of vinegar acid... I can gulp down 1 knife-tip of powder dissolved in half a cup of water in one go (I think that's the recommended dose for one day) but it's not something I'd do for fun.

The taste aside, also personal experience: Already 4 times the recommended dose will give me diarrhea. Maybe also stomach pain, depending on what I ate at the time. But I'm not big (74kg), someone big may endure a bit more, but obviously even small amounts put some additional stress on your stomach and probably other parts of your body, so, don't overdo it and by all means: Listen to your body.
One week ago, 1:57 AM #273
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Sounds a little like the effect of taking too much creatine powder when I've attempted to increase my muscle mass in the past. Plain creatine powder has a kind of chalky taste from my experience, and can give me a slightly upset stomach a few minutes later if I'm not lying down, which is why I generally take the stuff just before going to bed.
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One week ago, 11:01 AM #274
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Robotwin.com:From:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces
(Sorry if this has already been posted)


I mentioned this in the Budlitis thread, if you want to read the paper
Here is the page with the abstract, funding info, etc.
Here's the link to the full PDF
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One week ago, 11:39 AM #275
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eekee:Huge relief; I need those!


A nice bit of news, mostly. :)


Yep, they definitely are exempt. I ordered a pizza from my local Dominos online yesterday and it arrived normally - if anything, it was faster than you'd expect on a Saturday evening (more like a mid afternoon delivery), probably because they're not as busy as usual. Lets hope none of their staff are infected (I suspect they may have given them gloves and face masks as a precaution).
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One week ago, 4:34 PM #276
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Ok, so some very good news from the medical field.

While we're still probably a year away from seeing a proper vaccine, it's starting to appear that we have discovered a reliable treatment for people who are infected with the coronavirus. Interestingly the treatment involves combining an antimalarial drug (which kills a parasite) and an antibiotic (which kills bacteria).

The drug combo doesn't actually fight the virus at all, but it helps reduce the severity of your body's immune response, which ironically is what's killing people. When the virus is in your lungs, it sends out mixed signals that confuses your immune system, which causes it to attack healthy cells in your lungs. The more virus is around, the more killer cells get confused and the more damage they make. Meanwhile, while your body is fighting the virus in your lungs, all that damage is making it more susceptible to bacterial infections, this is what's causing pneumonia that's killing most people.

The antimalarial drug, apparently causes the pH level of your cells to go slightly up (it becomes more acidic). This seems to make it slightly harder for the virus to infect cells, so it slows its ability to multiply and spread. This in return gives your body more time to develop antibodies that can kill the virus. The antibiotic drug's job is then to keep the pneumonia causing bacteria away, while your lungs are recovering.

The are two very good things that I'm reading about this thing.
Firstly, both drugs are old and well established. Hell, the antimalarial drug was developed in the 40s. Both these drugs already exist in most hospitals and making more should not take too long.

Second, the research of the effectiveness and side effects is still ongoing but very promising. The antimalarial drug was discovered to be effective against SARS (a different coronavirus strain) in 2005, so they already had a head start there. Combining it with the antibiotic is a more recent discovery and there are more and more labs beginning to announce good reports about it.



Btw, I'm intentionally not naming these drugs (although it's very easy to google them) because I'm wary about self medication. I don't want to advocate that people go rushing to the pharmacy to go stock up on them. These same tests are saying that this is best used as a treatment on people who are already very sick from the virus and should not be taken otherwise. It is also NOT a good idea to be taking them while you're healthy, hoping to "prepare for the virus" or something stupid like that. The antimalarial is essentially turning your cells acidic which is not a good thing in the long run and heart problems is listed as a common side effect.
One week ago, 5:51 PM #277
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Sorry to throw some cold water on your parade, but you're going way further than the data supports.

I see that you avoided naming the drugs directly, and applaud your foresight. Since I'll need to talk about them, I'm going to refer to the anti-malarial drug as "Compound M" and the anti-bacterial as "Compound B". (Actually I ended up not referencing Compound B at all, but whatever, this post is too long already)

Product Placement:While we're still probably a year away from seeing a proper vaccine, it's starting to appear that we have discovered a reliable treatment for people who are infected with the coronavirus. Interestingly the treatment involves combining an antimalarial drug (which kills a parasite) and an antibiotic (which kills bacteria).


The current data is of a trial of twenty people, was not randomized, and was open-label (ie. not blind or double-blind). That is absolutely insufficient to make any policy recommendation beyond "we should do a proper study of this".

And we should! This is a promising hypothesis, and I really hope it turns out to be true. But we should not go crazy with this information.

An open-label, unrandomized, small-sample-size study can say basically whatever you want it to say. Give me a dozen patients and a lab coat, and I could "prove" the coronavirus can be cured by Skittles. There's a thousand ways you can warp a study like that by accident, let alone what you could do if you had specific results in mind. That's why we have so many rules about how to do a proper study - we've been harmed by them time and time again.

Product Placement:The drug combo doesn't actually fight the virus at all, but it helps reduce the severity of your body's immune response, which ironically is what's killing people. When the virus is in your lungs, it sends out mixed signals that confuses your immune system, which causes it to attack healthy cells in your lungs. The more virus is around, the more killer cells get confused and the more damage they make. Meanwhile, while your body is fighting the virus in your lungs, all that damage is making it more susceptible to bacterial infections, this is what's causing pneumonia that's killing most people.


It sounds like, in the first part, you're trying to describe the cytokine storm hypothesis. Which is a known phenomenon, but scientists aren't even 100% sure that's what's behind Covid-19 deaths. In fact, it doesn't really match well with the epidemiology, because cytokine storms are most dangerous in people with stronger immune systems. It's generally accepted as the cause of the 15-25yo mortality spike for the 1918 Spanish Flu, though even that is now debated. But Covid-19 is rarely severe in people from 15-45, and even more rarely in <15. That alone has made the cytokine storm hypothesis rather shaky.

In the second part, you're describing secondary infections. Which yeah, happen, and are probably a significant factor. But it's not a universal one - not every case, not even every severe case, of coronavirus leads to a secondary bacterial infection. The main damage seems to be coming from the virus itself, not opportunistic bacteria or an over-aggressive immune system.

Product Placement:The antimalarial drug, apparently causes the pH level of your cells to go slightly up (it becomes more acidic). This seems to make it slightly harder for the virus to infect cells, so it slows its ability to multiply and spread. This in return gives your body more time to develop antibodies that can kill the virus. The antibiotic drug's job is then to keep the pneumonia causing bacteria away, while your lungs are recovering.


Anyone claiming to know how Compound M fights coronavirus is lying, either deliberately or negligently. We don't even know how Compound M works against malaria. Seriously, we still don't know how it works for the thing we've been using it for decades for. We've got ideas, hypotheses, but no proven mechanism of action. We just know that it works, and that's enough to keep using it.

I'm also just generally dubious of anything that claims to affect biological pH, because there's all kinds of complicated bioregulation systems. Your body knows what acidity it wants things to be at, and has lots of ways to keep it that way - to change that, you either need to interfere with the regulation system itself, or you need massive amounts of the drug.

And pH levels are one of the favorite technobabble terms of scammers - it's just complex enough to sound sciencey, and just simple enough that you can chain together a logical series of cause and effect. I can't count the number of bullshit supplements or treatments that have claimed to alter some sort of pH to cure things. This doesn't prove you wrong, of course, just because a bit of science is often abused by cons doesn't mean it's not real science, but it definitely sets off some alarm bells.

Seriously, what's your source here? I for one am getting most of my info from Dr. Derek Lowe, PhD, a biochemist actively working in the pharmaceutical industry, and where possible, I go to the original papers.

(PS: A higher pH is less acidic, not more. Probably just a typo on your part but I can't let that pass without mention.)

Product Placement:Firstly, both drugs are old and well established. Hell, the antimalarial drug was developed in the 40s. Both these drugs already exist in most hospitals and making more should not take too long.


I kind of doubt anti-malarial drugs are commonly stocked in developed nations that have eradicated malaria. Small supplies, for cases brought in from other countries, sure, but not enough to handle the Covid-19 cases we're already seeing. Let alone those we expect to see in the future. And there are unfortunate production bottlenecks, as every anti-malarial drug I know of (not just Compound M) is a natural extract. So I'm not sure how fast production could be ramped up. Trees take a long time to grow.

Product Placement:Second, the research of the effectiveness and side effects is still ongoing but very promising. The antimalarial drug was discovered to be effective against SARS (a different coronavirus strain) in 2005, so they already had a head start there. Combining it with the antibiotic is a more recent discovery and there are more and more labs beginning to announce good reports about it.


I don't suppose you have a source on the SARS study? I've seen mentions of it but nobody actually has a paper or even names, just "some Chinese scientist was studying it and got good results but the outbreak ended before he could get solid data".

Product Placement:Btw, I'm intentionally not naming these drugs (although it's very easy to google them) because I'm wary about people that self medicate. I don't want to advocate that people go rushing to the pharmacy to go stock up on them. These same tests are saying that this is best used as a treatment on people who are already very sick from the virus and should not be taken otherwise. It is also NOT a good idea to be taking them while you're healthy, hoping to "prepare for the virus" or something stupid like that. The antimalarial is essentially turning your cells acidic which is not a good thing in the long run and heart problems is listed as a common side effect.


Since secrecy is doomed to fail in the end, let me try this way to dissuade people from it.

Compound M is a drug. It's effective at what it does, but any drug that has effects will have side effects. And the side effects of Compound M are nasty.

Beyond the cardiovascular damage, which extend all the way to heart attacks in the worst case, it seems to do a lot of damage to the eyes. In normal cases, it's not uncommon for your eyes to turn yellow, or to suffer temporary vision damage. In cases where things go wrong - where your body reacts badly, or especially if you overdose - the damage can be permanent.

Acting on such rumors, two people reportedly dosed themselves with Compound M this weekend. They then needed to be hospitalized, with impaired vision and arrhythmia. They may be blind for life. They're lucky - previous cases of overdose have ended in death.

Compound M has a fairly narrow therapeutic index - the distance between an effective dose and a toxic dose is not much. After the rise of resistant strains of malaria, this is probably the second-biggest reason researchers have been working on new anti-malarial drugs.

That is why doctors aren't rushing to use this experimental treatment, why the CDC and WHO aren't instructing hospitals to start using it. If you're dosing people with Compound M by the tens of thousands, the hundreds of thousands, there's going to be problems. There's going to be adverse reactions, there's going to be complications, there will even be some mistakes and accidents. Multiplied by 100,000, even small chances become inevitable.

If the treatment works, that would be worth it. If it cures more people than it kills, it'll be a win. But if it does nothing - if it's just an expensive placebo - then it's not just a waste of resources, but a direct cause of additional deaths. And if doctors - the people who can administer it safely - think it's too dangerous yet, then I cannot fathom trying to do it myself.
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One week ago, 7:06 PM #278
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Yeah, ok. So the point of my post was to give positive news to everyone concerned, not to engage in a scientific debate. There was new news on my local media today, about a study from France, that's supporting the initial reports that the drug coctail is working (with the obvious caveat that more research is still needed). That's what prompted me to post this. That test had 36 patients and they're expanding it to 200.

For my sources, I'll admit these are not scientific papers but I recently watched this video about what coronavirus does to people and I read about the ph level thing here.

And, seriously... I was just trying to tell people that hospitals might soon have reliable treatments for the critically ill. Thought they might like good news. This is the second time you talk down to me, and the first time was for explaining why soap tends to work better than disinfectant on viruses. I think I'll just shut up from now on.
One week ago, 10:10 PM #279
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Please don't shut up.

You were trying to be positive. We all need that right now, when everything feels so hopeless. Please keep us posted on that.
One week ago, 11:25 PM #280
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I shared this in the "Things to do in Isolation" thread too, but I've been wondering how I (an 8 month pregnant woman who can't be out delivering meals or groceries) can help out. If you're stuck at home and have even a slight knack for sewing this might be worth trying:



Obviously these are not medical grade, but we can't expect those to be landing in the hands of anyone but frontline medical workers. If you or whoever else you make these for follows the proper procedures to use these, they are better than nothing.
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"To you I am nothing more than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world...."
Forum > General discussion > So, Coronavirus
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