Forum > General discussion > So, Coronavirus
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5 days ago, 12:12 AM #281
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I'm lovin' it - McDonald's has announced the temporary closure of all their stores in the UK and Ireland. Previously they'd been keeping their drivethrough and delivery services open.
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5 days ago, 1:41 AM #282
the only safe place is the top shelf
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Over here we had the news story of McDonald's sorta "lending out" employees to the discount supermarket chain Aldi, which right now is far more in need of additional helping hands.
(E.g. restocking the toilet paper aisle ad nauseam...)
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5 days ago, 2:27 AM #283
I can explain
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Product Placement:Yeah, ok. So the point of my post was to give positive news to everyone concerned, not to engage in a scientific debate. There was new news on my local media today, about a study from France, that's supporting the initial reports that the drug coctail is working (with the obvious caveat that more research is still needed). That's what prompted me to post this. That test had 36 patients and they're expanding it to 200.

For my sources, I'll admit these are not scientific papers but I recently watched this video about what coronavirus does to people and I read about the ph level thing here.

And, seriously... I was just trying to tell people that hospitals might soon have reliable treatments for the critically ill. Thought they might like good news. This is the second time you talk down to me, and the first time was for explaining why soap tends to work better than disinfectant on viruses. I think I'll just shut up from now on.


I was not trying to be antagonistic. I was simply trying to temper the expectations that you were building. I view my replies to you more as elaborations than as contradictions. Nor have I been trying to talk down to you, or anyone, and I apologize if that was the impression I gave. If I explain things in greater detail than you need, it's because this is a public discussion. My posts might be addressed to you, but they're written knowing they'll be read by a wider audience. And so I try to make them easy to follow even for those with a lower base of knowledge.

I'm not opposed to positivity - by all means, it's a relief after the relentless apocalyptic despair I've been seeing elsewhere. If you'd just said "hey, there's possible good news, they did a preliminary study that raised some interesting drug candidates", I probably wouldn't even have responded, or might have used it as a building block to dive into some other treatment ideas that didn't pan out, or maybe into the status of vaccine development.

But talking about specific mechanisms, in that level of detail, as you did... I think that built a false expectation that we have made The Discovery, and all that's left is the rubber stamp and the paperwork. But that's not how it is - we just have a possibility, and the bulk of the work is still to be done. There's a very good chance that it won't pan out, that it will turn out to be an artifact of some sort. I will be fucking ecstatic if it works, and it's worth following the news of because it's the best lead we've got for a clinical treatment... but we should be aware that it might not.

While we need optimism to counteract all the needless pessimism, but I think what we truly need is realism. We need the truth - the messy, often murky truth that you get in a confusing and ongoing crisis, but the truth nonetheless. We need to know what it is that we don't know.

This situation is confusing. I could write an entire list of things we really want to know, but don't. Nothing is certain, and quite a lot doesn't even get up to "pretty sure". Things are moving too fast and there's not enough resources, not enough people, not enough of anything, to wait for a nice tidy foundation of solid knowledge before we start building anything else.

And as comforting as it might be to latch onto a story, any story, that claims to present true, robust facts... that's going to cause harm. There is, apparently, a shortage developing in the US of the drugs you mentioned. Healthy people who are worried about the coronavirus are hoarding them, preventing people who actually need them for their actual diseases from getting them. And I'm not blaming you for that - despite having just spent a few hundred words responding to you, yours was among the less sensationalist accounts that I've seen. But I know other people here will be seeing those more sensational reports as well, and if I can get them a realistic view now, maybe they'll be less likely to fall for them.

The news of the treatment is worthy of optimism - just, cautious optimism. I'm hoping for the best, while still being aware of the worst.
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5 days ago, 2:51 AM #284
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The thing is that this is now widespread and contagious enough that we're probably all going to come into contact with it some time relatively soon, and despite common misconception it is dangerous enough that relatively young and healthy people have had to go to the hospital or even die fairly frequently.
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5 days ago, 9:55 AM #285
Affection Bus
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It's odd how the "misperception of invincibility" thing works. Young people get sick because they feel they're young and strong, and therefore don't need to keep themselves safe. On the other hand a surprising number of older people aren't keeping themselves (or others) safe either because they feel the government is blowing stuff out of proportion and that it's just the flu and it was worse during WW2. I went to the supermarket yesterday and older people kept getting up in my business, even brushing past me or ducking under my arms to get what they wanted. Friends reported the same thing. Hell, some older colleagues even went to work sick because what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. One colleague even stated the sneezing in your elbow and keeping your distance from people is "snowflaky bullshit" and that he purposely got close to people and handed them their mail instead of putting it on the ground like we've been instructed to do - because at least he wasn't a pussy like the government.

Facemasks aren't available anymore and I don't know how to sew, so I'm wearing a scarf in front of my face when working. It's mostly to stop myself from touching my face all the time.

According to the medical university of Groningen the virus is able to survive on paper for 24 hours, if the situations are "ideal". That's much longer than PostNL thought. PostNL couldn't possibly have known, since that information wasn't yet available when they gave us our instructions. There's a lot to learn about both the virus and COVID-19 still, and I have the idea people don't appreciate that.
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5 days ago, 2:41 PM #286
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GMan003:If I explain things in greater detail than you need, it's because this is a public discussion. My posts might be addressed to you, but they're written knowing they'll be read by a wider audience. And so I try to make them easy to follow even for those with a lower base of knowledge.

...

But talking about specific mechanisms, in that level of detail, as you did... I think that built a false expectation that we have made The Discovery, and all that's left is the rubber stamp and the paperwork.

That was the impression I got from Product Placement's post. I appreciate the detailed rebuttal.

(But I am a little amused by Product Placement not naming products. ;)


Pavchka:Facemasks aren't available anymore and I don't know how to sew, so I'm wearing a scarf in front of my face when working. It's mostly to stop myself from touching my face all the time.

I've been tying a tea towel over my face. It's just-about long enough diagonally. The trouble is, if I wear that thing for more than 10 minutes, I feel like I'm dying! When I get deliveries, it's a rush job when they knock!
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5 days ago, 3:46 PM #287
Affection Bus
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I know right... The scarf I use is a thin nylon thing and even that obstructs my nose enough to be annoying. But it's better than nothing.

People have been stealing facemasks, toilet paper and hand sanitiser from hospitals. A little over a week ago I went to the local Lidl only to see all the food sold out with the exception of precut veggies, some meat and celery roots (I guess celery root is too Hunger Winter for comfort). Right now there's plenty of food on the shelves, but toilet paper's still scarce. People've been stocking up like the shitpocalypse is near. It's a dog-eat-dog situation out there.

Celery root is very tasty, by the way, and even functions as a salt substitute when used in red sauce. Its bad reputation is as far as I'm concerned undeserved.
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5 days ago, 6:01 PM #288
and the Sorcerer's Stone
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Now all our hospitals decided to send all non-covid19 patients home despite the condition they're in.

I think it's a rather bad move.

And we had a case of an old lady suffering from diabetes who needed her insulin shots, instead got treated for coronavirus, but died in the process because she actually needed her diabetes treatment. Now she's among the coronavirus deaths.

I gotta say they're right... Coronavirus kills! Because everyone focuses on it, ignoring all the other diseases that people might have.
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5 days ago, 6:07 PM #289
paid to be there and look good
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GMan003:I was not trying to be antagonistic. I was simply trying to temper the expectations that you were building.

I'm sorry that you don't consider antagonistic to write an entire essay, where you systematically break down every single paragraph that I wrote, just to explain how wrong I am and chastising me for lack of source.

I actually wrote these details, because I wanted to explain the oddity of the treatment. I thought it was amusing that they were combating a virus with drugs designed to fight a parasite and bacteria.

As I said, I decided to report on this, when I saw new news about separate studies confirming the first one (the one you brought up). Obviously it's very preliminary. Obviously they're working with limited number of patients. They're racing against the clock and trying to see what works. The French team are about to start a trial on 200 patients and I, for one, am feeling hopeful for the thousands of patients who are currently in critical care across the globe.
5 days ago, 6:30 PM #290
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Well ANYWAY

I for one am optimistic about the chloroquine + zpax discovery and hope to see more testing.

I see that apparently people are overdosing on it, and that CNN is saying that Nigeria is cautioning against its use because of the overdosing

however i do feel like that's less of a fault of the drug and more of the whole "the shit is over the counter and individual people who are not trained medical professionals are taking it wrong"

I also read that it WILL put your body through some hell regardless, some guy in Louisiana trying it as a last-ditch effort went through some hell as his body reacted to it and they had to give him benadryl and shit, but, he recovered very quickly.
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5 days ago, 6:43 PM #291
🕎 Light it up 🕎
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The mass scale of disorganization in hospitals is extremely worrying.
One of my coworkers has a very important surgery postponed because of this, and is in an immense amount of physical pain, but won't be able to do anything.

One of the chats I'm in, there's a doctor from Georgia who is now being forced to escort medical supplies in an armored vehicle; he also has service experience, I think national guard, so he's doing both medical work and escorting.
In the same chat, there's another doctor who is in South America and he's talked about the situation there and it's really not good.

I am enjoying my time fretting over the extremely grim employment notices that my work keeps putting out over our payroll website; never thought I'd see the day when walmart is completely sold out of cat litter, drifting away to animal crossing, sleeping nearly 16 hours a day like some bizarre fever dream

edit: in humorous news, my mom got REALLY angry at me because I told her that burning sage wasn't going to help with the pandemic, won't talk to me and then she "accidentally" sent me an explicit text
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5 days ago, 7:57 PM #292
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In the UK, Boris Johnson is due to make an important announcement in just over half an hour.
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5 days ago, 7:59 PM #293
will die on Dec 14th 2021, 3:25 PM
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My tattoo shop got shut down for quarantine and from the looks of it I’m not gonna have work til May. If things look up that is.

I’m fortunate enough to have my husband able to work remotely, but it’s going to be so tight now. I’ve gotten by off less, but it’s still defeating.

It could be worse. We could HAVE covid and end up in the hospital. I know everything will be okay but man...it just sucks.

I wish the stupid Florida governor could get his head outta his ass and just shut the state down completely. The sooner the better.
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5 days ago, 8:24 PM #294
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Pavchka:Celery root is very tasty, by the way, and even functions as a salt substitute when used in red sauce. Its bad reputation is as far as I'm concerned undeserved.

I lived on tuna oatcakes & celery for about a year. I still love 'em. :D
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5 days ago, 9:03 PM #295
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Britain is the latest country to declare a lockdown for "nonessential activities". Those include include going out to exercise up to once a day, buying food and of course being in your garden.

Isn't chloroquine the malaria drug that can cause hair loss (a slight thinning, not usually total like certain cancer drugs) in a small percentage of people?
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4 days ago, 3:07 AM #296
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Welp, I got fired. Indirectly because of the virus. My state's governor has put a stay home order in place and closed all non-essential businesses, but thankfully, the job search requirement for unemployment has been waived.
4 days ago, 3:26 AM #297
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This corona virus is driving me absolutely insane. At this rate I have nothing lose anymore. Not like I had hopes to begin with. Most of the folks I know, my family, fiends, and teachers are going to die because our “great” America president downplayed this shit like it was minor cold. Here we are now....

I really Just want someone to tell me everything’s okay but it just isn’t. The world is getting worse and worse and makes me fucking pissed and frustrated. I don;t know what to do with myself.
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4 days ago, 6:53 AM #298
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Pavchka: (I guess celery root is too Hunger Winter for comfort).


Celery root is great though! It's what we ate before we even had potatoes. Amazing in pea soups, stamppot and even curries.
4 days ago, 6:57 AM #299
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Fruity20:This corona virus is driving me absolutely insane. At this rate I have nothing lose anymore. Not like I had hopes to begin with. Most of the folks I know, my family, fiends, and teachers are going to die because our “great” America president downplayed this shit like it was minor cold. Here we are now....

I really Just want someone to tell me everything’s okay but it just isn’t. The world is getting worse and worse and makes me fucking pissed and frustrated. I don;t know what to do with myself.


Harness that anger, use it to affect some positive change. Keep snowballing it. Don't lose hope.
4 days ago, 8:14 AM #300
🕎 Light it up 🕎
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Hearing anecdotal experiences about people trying to rob, loot and raid rural properties for supplies.

Stay at home order issued here
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Forum > General discussion > So, Coronavirus
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